Down to just 1 question - can we transfer our individual private pension pots (at 6.75% tax payable in France) on consecutive years to keep our annual income below E250k (to avoid frankly scary levels of tax) or is the rule with convertign private pensions - that we have to perform the transfer of all individual pots (so imagine we have private pensions with 3 companies) simultaneously.
Now - to me the answer is that we need to transfer an entire pot at a time - but there’s nothing stopping us from transferring 1 pot each year for 2 or 3 years. But you never do know? Beyond that - all questions answered on the forum!!
Here’s a virtual crypto 5 DOGE piece for your advice!
(the advice on this forum - particularly some of the threads in ‘Banking’ are really good! Thanks for taking the time - I’ll be posting lots of Help notes etc for expats when we transition to France in 2 years or so).
(personally I’d prefer a day out with 5 Dogges but that’s just me)
I never said it wasn’t, just that it’s not actual horse’s mouth stuff with any comeback if it’s incorrect.
I think the logic that you could transfer whole pension pots in different tax years is probably sound, but only reading the official texts &/or consulting a professional will make that 100% certain.
Yes. The pots are separate, you must have different plan numbers though they can be with one provider. Discussed this with my France tax inspector. As I’m sure will you.
Why don’t you read the Impot’s tax bulletin setting out the rules - did you miss it in the other threads?
You can do the arithmetic as to what’s more favourable - lump sum in France or whether to take the tax free element from one or more pots before departing UK and then take instalments once in France. If it’s your only income in France it would be 0% on 11K EUR and 11% on the next 17K each year.
You asked one other question, not answered. Can you continue to pay into UK personal pensions once you’ve left - yes, everyone in UK can pay in up to 2880, topped up by 720 by govt to 3600 - you can continue to do this for 5 years after your last presence in the UK. Withdraw the personal pension in France at 6.75% - 243 tax , so a gain of 477 (plus anything made ib the pension). Many would not consider the return to be worth the hassle, but if you have the plan set up, easy to make 1 contribution each year.
I’ve only failed at 1 point (ie hae to pay for advice) and that’s because of UK Governmental legislation that we have to get some guy to rubber stamp a DB to DC conversion even though if we could split it (as we can do with DC pensions) - we’d then be below the CETV (£30k threshold) to need financial advice.
That’s kinda’ what I’m getting at with the idea that I do struggle with the logic underlying taxation.
I haven’t managed to hatch up any clever plans to slice and dice a DB pension … … but DC pensions - much easier!
I have been tagged but not sure on what part or post… it appears to be mainly incoherent ramblings mixed with genuine questions and sarcasm…. I stopped reading when someone mentioned Lidl or something.
If anyone has a question I’m happy to try and answer it but I just haven’t got time to sift through the nonsense.
You have to pay for a TVAS or DBAR (financial report). You can then elect to ignore the advice and transfer your pension to a provider that will accept and insistent client or a negative advice report.
Will cost about £2k as you need UK licensed and qualified adviser with AF7.
It wouldn’t be sensible to commute a DB pension at the moment as interest rates are high. This means annuity rates are high as well and the calculation used to value the rights will mean it’s a lot less than it would have been when interest rates were much lower. You would want to get the pension revalued to retirement age and calculate how many years from retirement age you’d need to live to get the same amount of the lump sum. Taking into account the fact you’d need to take on investment risk and cost etc.
Generally speaking in most cases it’s better to keep a DB pension than transfer it.
There are situations when it might make sense but in my experience not so often,
Hi, I’m not licensed in the UK to provide advice to UK residents (fully qualified UK adviser). I’m only licensed in the EU. If you can get a guaranteed CETV I can talk you through the detail. If you were resident in France I could help you complete the transfer but I would have to be sure it was the right advice.
Hey - have all the CETVs thanks - wonderful - can I just ask whether the transfers would be performed similarly to DC pensions ie 6.75% tax (the 2 are well below E250k total - at £60k mine and £90k my wife’s on 1/1/2025)? and would we be able to nail down a price for the transaction?
Totally happy to do it in France if required!
I’ve contacted ~100 specialists in DB conversion here and so have been around the block on the thought process etc … … so know that everything you’ve written is spot on.
Part of the tax in France for the low rate means the pension has to qualify as a 2nd pillar pension. This is defined as you and your employer receiving tax relief on contributions. As it is a non contribution pension on your part I’d want to check that it would satisfy the regime on that basis. One of the articles go into detail on what is recognised as a 2nd pillar pension. But yes if you have a French address and resident / want to do the transfer I can do it. Best to wait until you are resident and Interest rates are lower
1 consolidated workplace pension (amalagam of lots)
She has 2 other workplace DC pensions which I’ve just cancelled consolidation into her workplace pension on.
1 DB workplace pension
(so that’s 2 (1 DB 1 DC) in total for me and 4 (1 DB 3DC) for my wife)
They’re all workplace pensions or amalgams of workplace pensions but we’ve made enhanced payments into our 2 workplace current DCs of 100% salary for several years because of tax relief and the desire to stop working ASAP.
I can’t work out what ‘2nd pillar pension’ means?
Am I to understand that we can’t transfer these pensions because they don’t qualify for ‘2nd pillar’ status?
Hi Dave, my understanding is all HMRC registered and regulated pensions receive tax reliefs on contributions and growth. Employer contributions receive tax relief on corporation tax. (?)
Edit - I recall in the Impot bulletin it mentions the proportion of the pot to receive tax relief - 50% ?
Hi @Dave_Lawson - have somebody lined up to do the DB DC conversion x 2 here if it looks like we fail the “2nd pillar” rule but would much prefer to do it and EVERYTHING else we need to do with someone like you.
I’ve just read in one of the threads here that there’s a ‘trivial commutation’ rule on pensions - and these can be taken without paying tax so £30k per person (max of 3 pots) - but lots of contradictory information out there. Some sites say it’s for DC + DB, others only DB and others that the rule actually requires tax to be paid as we’d do normally (25% tax-free and 75% taxed at nominal rate). I’ll post to the thread and update it based on what you say.
Thanks @Dave_Lawson - I don’t think myself + wife contributed to our DBs but we definitely contributed to the DCs … … but we’ll also have DCs where there’s no employer contribution (ie just us) in a SIPP also.
Slightly hurts the head though - as a UK DB to DC conversion pushes the DBs into a DC pension which we can then transfer to France at the 6.75% rate. And so it’s still possible I think???
