Hi Toryroo, I was wondering if you found out anything about absence from France for more than 6 months? (5 year card)
My partner is in the UK at present sorting out her mothers (long term) medical problem and @JaneJones made the very sensible suggestion to speak with the prefecture to see what options there might be. For this ‘year’ she’s been 2 months absent at this point.
Before calling them, I thought I might just check back with you first? Thanks.
i have a 10 year CDS permanent, worked, paid tax, carte vitale etc and need to return to the UK. While i’m there i can work for my brothers company and i was wondering if i was able to work for 6 months, i.e 180 days and then return to France. I’m aware of the double tax agreement and contacted HMRC and was informed as i was only working for 6months, i.e 180 days i would pay tax but could claim it back and would l need to make a declaration on my impot form or seek an accountant for advice?
I take it i am entitled to return to the U.K for 5 years even though i will be away for less than 183 days!
Sorry if this has been covered previously!
As a British citizen (?) you have the right to work in the UK. Would you be working as an employee (ie they sort out PAYE) or self employed? Changes how you declare in the UK.
Once back in France you declare it in your French tax return, and if you have paid tax in the UK will get a credit impôt for that.
Yiu have to declare it as it will change your overall Revenue Fiscal de Référence so may change your tax band.
There is the HMRC form France individual but I think that is just for other UK income - stand to be corrected tho’. It’s a while since I worked in the UK.
Correct as far as I can see it.
This also incudes the paragraph: -
Use form France-Individual 2009 to apply for relief at source from UK Income Tax and to claim repayment of UK Income Tax under the terms of the UK-France Double Taxation convention. For use by residents of France receiving pensions, purchased annuities, interest or royalties arising in the UK.
It is very likely that you will pay tax in UK on the emergency tax code basis (ie without any free pay allowance) and whilst HMRC might issue a tax code, if your work there is temporary, they may decode not to and leave it you to claim later when you have returned to France.
Thanks for the reply, yes i would be working PAYE so i assume i would be issued an emergency tax code?
As in the post above yours…
No-one has answered this yet and I’m not sure as I only have a 5 year card. @JaneJones is usually the one up to speed on this sort of thing.
PS - Welcome to SurviveFrance Andy!
Yes with a 10 year WARP card it is 5 years. Yet another special concession as for all other third country nationals it’s 2 or 3 years.
@andwhy have you managed to open two accounts?
Your original post was under the username @Andy_Etheridge
@billybutcher can probably sort that out for you…
Merging users is an administrator thing so needs to be done by @james, I can remove one of the accounts and posts, that’s all.
Perhaps the user can indicate which account he wishes to retain if he want to go down the “kill one account” route… which would also apply for when @james is active on the case…
@andwhy @Andy_Etheridge
I’d be inclined to suggest retaining the “_Etheridge” version as that related to the earlier question…
@billybutcher can do that for you. Thanks for responding.
C’est fait.
good teamwork… 
Further to this, I’d be interested to know what counts as ‘absence’ for a five-year period when one has the 10-year WARP card.
Is a short visit back sufficient to retain the right to come back to reside, or is it necessary to become French tax resident again for another year in order to leave again and return?
Is my meaning clear? Grateful for any wisdom on this.
The text isn’t massively clear but when I was working for one of the associations helping folk with Brexit WARPs it came up and our understanding was any return resets it. I can’t remember now if we got that from the MOI or embassy. I’d contact RIFT, I think they are the only one still going for clarification. Please update when you find out more.
An enquiry to Your Europe advice has just brought this response :
The WA does not go as far as defining absence from the host country where one acquired permanent residence. This is a matter to be clarified through case-law, and the ratio legis (intention of the EU legislator) will be important in this respect.
What we can tell you is this: in its judgment of 20 January 2022, Z.K. vs Netherlands , the Court of Justice of the EU issued an interpretation of the Long-Term Resident Directive (2003/109), a piece of EU legislation providing for a right of permanent residence of non-EU citizens. Where that Directive says that that right of residence can be lost in the event of absence from the territory of the [EU] for a period of 12 consecutive months , the Court ruled that it is not necessary to actually come back to reside in the EU before that period elapses: a visit of a few days is enough to maintain the status of long-term resident, and therefore the unconditional right of residence. This serves the interest of the long-term resident s integration in the EU. The Court went out of its way to rule that this was by analogy to a comparable provision of the Free Movement Directive (2004/38/EC): Once acquired, the right of permanent residence shall be lost only through absence from the host Member State for a period exceeding two consecutive years. The fact that she had maintained her right of permanent residence as an EU citizen also meant that as of the date that Brexit took effect (1 January 2021), K.R. was also entitled to a permanent residence permit as a British citizen, based on the Withdrawal Agreement of the UK from the EU. And because Article 15(3) of the Withdrawal Agreement provides that a right of permanent residence for a British citizen in an EU member state will only be lost through absence from the host member state for a period exceeding five consecutive years, the Dutch government was bound to adhere to the same interpretation of the term absence as in Z.K…
In short, in reply to you, it would seem that any British citizen who obtained a right of permanent residence in France before or after Brexit can therefore maintain that right by simply visiting France for a few days every less than five years.
@JaneJones I just came across this answer from you and just joined the conversation. I wondered if someone could give me some clarification on my situation.
I moved to France in Sep 2019 and was issued a carte de sejour under article 50 TUE Withdrawal Agreement in Jan 2021 for a duration of 5 years. Therefore, it is set to expire Jan 2026 and I would be looking to renew it a couple of months before the expiration date.
If I have understood correctly, in ‘earning’ my 5 years of uninterrupted stay in France to be able to apply for permanent residency, I am not permitted more than 6 months out of France per year during 5 years?
I am in my fifth year since arriving in France. In years 1 - 4, I did not spend more than 6 months of each year out of France. However, since Sep 2023 (the start of year 5 for me), I am approaching being out for 6 months - I have been out due to some stressful personal circumstances and I’m temporarily at my parents’ house in the UK. I am worried about the repercussions of this and wanted to check:
Thank you for your help.
Basically nobody knows because no Withdrawal Agreement cards have become due for renewal yet so there is no procedure in place. It is highly unlikely that anybody is going to count days this way or that just as long as you have maintained your home in France and kept paying your taxes here. It would be better if you could stay below HMRC’s radar in the UK because if they start trying to say you have moved back and become resident in the UK that might cause complications. But in any case the prefecture has discretion and genuine personal issues like seriously ill relatives, elderly parents needing care are likely to be treated sympathetically.
In your case as a 5 year WARP card holder your clock started on the date you arrived pre end-of-transition and has to run for an unbroken period of 5 years. That is clearly stated in the Withdrawal Agreement You can’t stop the clock and restart it again.
I would not worry, I really cannot imagine they are going to be the slightest bit interested in whether might have spent a bit more than 6 months in the UK one year. Focus on doing whatever you have to do in the UK and do not stress about this.
Sandcastle is right about the date for your “years”. They are not calendar years, but related to arrival date as declare in your application for a WA card. If you do that calculation you may find that in fact you have a bit of room for manoeuvre.
Each préfecture can make its own judgement on what could be special circumstances, but generally assumed to mean family illness back in UK, personal problems like divorce and children being taken to UK, and financial issues and mental health. From what I’ve read they are quite generous. Especially as no process in place.
It is also entirely possible that like with the original applications for WA cards you will be required to sign an attestation that you have met conditions. And it will have the same penalties for fraud that few realised at that time -€35k fine and 2 years’ prison. So will be between you and your conscience.
The safest thing is to try to make a short documented trip back between 6 and 9 months, and to return completely before you have to become UK tax resident.