We are just about to sell our house in Surrey and ALL estate agents are charging 1%, but then there is a massive lack of properties coming up for sale in our area! People in our area do not move, they stay! They build up and now also down! France is different to the UK, for starters they drive on the right side of the road...joking aside, England is not France and visa versa... :)
Dont get me wrong Richard, Ive never had a problem with estate agents per se, my best friend is a manager with Hamptons and my son worked for one of the most infamous estate agents in London for some time! Its the process that doesnt work well in France. Once again its down to customer service. If agents insisted on sole agency in France as they do in England, it wouldnt work at the moment, because most wont prepare room plans, do the deep financial vetting of clients, taking clients to a house they wish to see rather than one the agent wants to shift…etc. No one would sign up for single agency unless they were getting a razor sharp service. Its up to the agents to decide to do this. If an agency was clearly highly professional,with studio quality photo’s, vetted clients, gave honest financial valuation of the properties rather than stick them on for whatever crazy price the owner wanted…then that agent would do well.
One of our agents has an office that stinks of cat pee…they have around 10 cats all over the place and literally my eyes water from the ammonia when I go in. We use them as they are large and popular due to their huge portfolio of properties and online website. Another is delightful, a real Lesley Philips type character, laid back and charming. When we tried to get one of the large London agencies in the UK to link to us to their local French agent, they said there was no point as ‘our agent there is as much use as a chocolate T pot…’! yes…it was our very own Lesley Philips.
We have just sold our flat in the UK…not a big commission for our agents, or the agents of the people who we are buying off of…but I have had 3 emails from the agent who represents the owners of our new home today…sorting out questions Ive raised (do I need to get a condenser dryer or a normal one…is there a TV arial of just a satelite dish etc etc)…our UK agents secretary has been emailing me at 6.45 some evenings with last minute news last week when there was a problem with the exchange…and we have popped in Saturdays and Sundays as they are open both days.
I know, I know…that everything is different in France…but the service could be improved hugely, even minor tweaks make a difference. We havent got one agent that does floorplans…an essential for me when I am wishing to buy…in fact my viewings are decided on a floorplan. Doesnt have to be exactly to scale as long as the measurements are there.
"I am selling a property in the UK and am paying 1.25% to the agent, don't quite get why French agents need to charge such high commissions. I have asked but never seem to have got a convincing justification."
As an 'agent commercial' selling property in France who also worked with an estate agent in the UK, perhaps I could offer you some insight based on facts rather than the "estate agents are the lowest form of human life" perspective :
- In the UK, the vast majority of properties are sold via a sole agency with typical fees of 1.5% to 2.0% on properties with average values far higher than those in France. If you choose to go dual agency in the UK, then those fees will be higher, typically 2.5% to 3.0%. That is because it is a 'winner takes all' situation where an agent can commit significant time and money in marketing a property yet end up with zero return. Now, consider that in a French context where the majority of properties are listed with three or four agencies as a minimum. I know that I could very well invest significantly in preparing professional standard photographs, doing floorplans, producing a virtual tour, listing the property on multiple property portal websites, travelling to do viewings etc. and still end up with no return. Where I have clients who ask me to be their sole agent, I can afford to charge a lower fee because I know that at some point I will earn a fee in return for my investment.
- Picking up the issue of travelling....in the UK, most agents operate within a relatively tight area, perhaps 15km in radius. I work within an area that is 120km from top to bottom! Viewing clients will regularly expect me to drive them around for a whole day to view perhaps five or six properties..... at my cost. If I get an offer accepted on a property, I am then expected to travel back and forth collecting the required documentation, taking it to the notaire, attending the signings at the notaire's office etc. Some of those simple trips could easily be a two hour round trip.
I am not complaining because I love what I do and (by and large) I meet some great people - but I would like people to understand that not all estate agents come from the same mould, some of us work really hard for our clients but in the French context, we do incur significant costs in so doing.
Well the number of buyers are def. down in the last 4 years in our area....the number of purchases by English peeps in the Dordogne where we live is also down according to all my agents! whereas there are more Australians around, and apparently the Dutch are still buying and now the French numbers are up.
Not all 3 were turned down on the amount for mortgage...one as I said, had cancer previously and her mortgage company refused on the grounds they require a 10 year period of being clear, the Notaire received the letter from the mortgage company explaining this. One lady came to see the house...loved it...said she was going to buy, then two weeks down the line...she said she was 40k short....but could we still go ahead. We had reduced it by 80k at this point already. Another said it was outside their price range but they wanted it and thought they could get the mortgage they tried several companies and gave up in the end....they were well short of the amount.
We are happy to negotiate... With what we paid and what we spent on redoing the roof, (it leaked like a sieve) replastering, decorating, new electric points everywhere, new septic tank, etc...we are looking at around 100k less than we paid for it 4 years ago. Its now in great condition whereas it wasnt before...the garden is immaculate as is the house. The viewings are regular and ongoing...we have another one next week and the last was 8 weeks ago.
Prognosticate? Physician heal thyself :-) :-) :-)
On the market for 2.5 years...had about 20 viewings. Three times we got to exchange...twice a problem with our buyers getting the size mortgage they wanted and once the buyer admitted to having cancer 8 years before and the mortgage company withdrew its offer! Of those two were French and one Dutch couple. We have the usual Brits dragged along who are looking for a holiday home....which it isnt. One French couple decided where the pool was going, had a surveyor confirm it could go there...where the conservatory was going...that the pigonnier was going to be for the nanny, then at the last minute, Madam decided it was too far from her home village...about 20 kms away.
We bought off a French family...a bit like Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie....they were local teachers who adopted children from abroad...they lived in the house for over 20 years and it was a proper family home.
hmmm...not going to disagree with you Brian. My agent in the UK sent details out to over 200 potential buyers in the first week, put our flat on their website as well as on Rightmove, Primelocation and Zoopla. There was also a video of the flat. It appeared in the local paper twice. They spoke to all that wanted to view and as per our instructions, only showed around those who had accepted an offer, sold their property, first time buyers with mortgage agreed or cash buyers.
They did all viewings. Fed back to us by email the following day after every viewing. We received figures monthly on the number of hits on the website and number of viewings...compared to national average. For this we are about to pay 1.25 percent, the same as you Brian. Having had all the last minute problems you could imagine, our agent was emailing our buyers on a daily basis, advising them strongly to kick start their solicitor, and letting us know when and why there was a holdup. I am taking in flowers and wine for the agents on Thursday when we move. I am delighted with their hard work and they earned every penny.
Now...our property in France...we have 4 local agents...all have keys. We have had unannounced visits, visits when we are away when they forget to lock up...leaving a french window open (we were away for a month!) not one of the agents owned up to that one...no feedback unless we chase....no checking the financial status of viewers...which is why a week after we were due to exchange...we discovered our would be buyers mortgage providers, were not providing after all. We have a mixture of French and English agents. Dont get me wrong...they are mostly charming and personable...but are they earning their 20k euros....I am afraid not. I know the systems are different....and many only get paid on commission...but it isnt as slick as the UK or as effective.
If you don't know the answer don't put your hand up - that's what I learnt at school!
As an estate agent working in Brittany, I've glad to see that you jumped in straightened out Gordon's response above.
I'm not going to repeat what you've said, but fully endorse the correct answers that you've given to the questions posed. Why are there so many spurious responses from people who don't know the facts - makes my blood boil! (Anglo-info is the pits for this - do some people have nothing better to do all day than procrastinate on subjects that they know nothing about?)
I think for us its the physical size of the house....Ive had several people ask if I have 'cleaners' because the house is so large...(I actually spend an average of 10 hours a week cleaning it!) 5 bedrooms, 2 acres and a one bed outbuilding, plus a huge 40 x 30ft grande salon....with a 20ft high ceiling is a lot to heat. The problem is it isnt a holiday home and agents are inclined to bring Brits looking for just that.
Its a proper family home, but till we find the family...... we are with 4 agents locally and one online. oh...and we joined an Australian agency too a few weeks ago....apparently they do quite well selling properties and go on group visits, looking at different areas of France.
My last 2 sales agreed have been for 450,000 + so I would not totally agree with you.
I agree that there are not many buyers at this level, but they are out there. You might need to check with your agent how they approach the International market, as agreed, many local French buyers won't have that budget.
We also advise vendors not to go with too many agents - it makes you look desperate to sell. Choose a max of 4 and work with them. If they don't work with you, get rid ! Bonne chance.
Peter, its not as simple as houses selling if correctly priced. The much larger houses and also the more expensive houses are not selling well or quickly. We are with plenty of agents and they are saying that houses under 100k selling reasonably well and those under 200k not doing so bad, under 300k there is a market but once you start getting into the 400k to the million its like walking in treacle.
Size is relevant....houses over 3000 sq ft like ours, have a limited appeal and will never sell quickly, no matter how good the market. The housing market in France has never got close to the bouyant UK market in terms of quick sales. We put our 2 bed flat on the market in May and move on Thursday, and that was considered a slow sale in these parts. Property watching is a hobby of mine, and I have watched both the UK and the French and Portugese markets for over 30 years; whilst agents in France are saying things are picking up, agents where we live in the UK are saying they are not having time to prepare details as many properties go to the market and are sold within the week.
Luckily Richard we are connected to the mains
Thanks Peter and all of you, very grateful
Well said Peter - thank heavens there is someone speaking knowledgeably about this subject!
One other matter to consider - if you are not connected to mains sewerage and have a fosse septique, you will also need a certificate of conformity for your fosse. If your fosse has not been tested within the last two years, you will need to arrange for it to be re-tested.
Finally, whilst you only need to have the energy report completed before you put your house up for sale, it is well worth having all the diagnostic reports completed up front. It is far better to know of any problems from the start (and dealing with them if you choose to) rather than issues cropping up at the last minute which scare off your buyer just as they look likely to sign a compromis de vente.
When we sold our last house here, about 6 years ago, the Notaires & agents fees were paid by the purchaser. We received the gross agreed sale price. Interestingly the agents organised & paid for the survey fee, presumably as they had a buyer who desperately wanted the house & they didn't want to lose the fee.
Oh dear inaccurate here too Gordon !
In most cases, the mandat states that the buyer pays the agency fees and the Notaire's fees. I have sold around 300 houses for clients so do have some experience...
The agency fees at say 6% inclusive of TVA, so don't carry 19.6 % on top in addition as you suggest.
As I said earlier, I wish people would stop offering their "expert advice" unless they actually know their facts.
Oh dear, so many inaccurate answers! The seller pays the Agent who has been working for them to sell the house. The seller also pays the regulation survey fees, to have the fosse emptied and the chimneys swept before completion. The certificates for these must be shown to the notaire. The Buyer pays the tax and Notaire. The agents fees are not regulated by the Government. They are negotiable but do carry TVA at 19.6% on top of the rate agreed.
Wishing you every good luck with your sale. The estate agent fees dont affect you anyway as your buyer pays. Its the surveys and the Notaire costs. You could advertise with someone like Greenacre yourselves..you can load up around 20 odd photos and do your own description and handle it all yourself...for around £100 a year flat fee to advertise on their website. We are on with everyone...and everything! the market is very flat...only the smaller places seem to be moving with any speed at all.
I think these figures are a bit OTT. We have sold a house and are selling another. The agents fees are all around 6% and you get nothing much for it! The notaire is about the same. There is no capital gain if it is your primary residence. If you are running a gîte it may attract capital gains but check with the notaire because it depends on where the gîte is i.e. part of the house or in the grounds or a separate 'parcel'. I am not a professional advisor!