My little man at the tresorie really does try to help me once I start stumbling. I think so much depends on the particular personality of the person you're dealing with. One thing that makes me roll my eyes, not just in France but anywhere I've travelled, is the (usually English) person who thinks if they SPEAK LOUDLY ENOUGH that will 'translate' their point enough for it to be understood.
Has anyone else found officials to be helpful like my Tresorie man? (Having said that, received a letter from him this morning which is at odds with what the lady in the sous prefecture tax place said but that's a different story)
It's like tip toeing through a minefield, Ashley, isn't it, lol. I actually thought it was a good question. Ordering a coffee and a croissant in a cafe is far different from having to deal with officialdom so asking people's own experiences was a good idea.
I'm not stirring Véronique - I'm simply offended by some of the comments made - quite obviously you were not otherwise you would have addressed them.....
I'm really lucky - I'm bilingual (mixed family) but that is not always a good thing! I overhear shameful comments about 'foreigners' on a regular basis - sometimes even more so when the person / people I'm speaking to assume(s) I'm French. Ok - sometimes I get so rattled I say something - other times I can't be bothered. Either way it's very upsetting and something that hadn't even crossed my mind before I ended up living in France full-time.
I honestly feel that, in France, there is a deep almost sinister suspicion (fear?) of anyone not French which manifests itself as ridicule, aggression or outright dismissal (shoulder shrug and hands thrust skywards). Yes - the levels vary according to region and population but there is always an undercurrent.
I witness it on a daily basis - it's a one way street - all the effort being made by the 'foreigner' in France with very little encouragement from those who are in a perfect position to help them. Not one of the best features of this country.
Ok, thank you all. I understand your points. I get the picture now. Geez these forums can get off track and out of control. Merci a vous tous. Thank you to all.
There are rude people who don't say hello everywhere though aren't there. I'd have thought though that you have more chance of finding polyglots at airports - not that that excuses rudeness even if it goes some way to explain it.
And if you think French people are not given to candy-coating, try Dutch people. Or even funnier (in an awful way) try speaking one of their official national languages (French not Flemish) to Flemish speakers in Belgium!
Oh the joys of Kennedy's Latin Primer! I started Latin using it when I was about 7 and then we used 'A New Approach to Latin' from when I was 10 or so, it had just come out I think & was supposed to be all friendly...
Stick to your French structures learnt for O level, they will be correct & French people with any level of education will respect you for using them! Yoofspeak in any language nowadays is pretty ghastly (and ridiculous coming out of the mouths of oldies like us). I have British friends who prefer to communicate in writing with people who do work on their holiday house because they don't have any trouble writing good French, having done O level many many years ago, but are a bit twitchy about speaking because they don't live here & their spoken French is creaky.
Oh I do find that good news! To be honest I think my French is stuck somewhere pre war when our text books were printed. A lot of "Est ce que" and so on which seems to be right out now, Rhetorical questions are much more the thing. Do you know what- I've been thinking of going back to some of my Latin which I used to love and nearly bought a Kennedy's Primer a couple of weeks ago!Obvious signs of rapidly advancing senility (now that is a word of Latin origin!)
Ashley said above he takes a dictionary with him out and about, this is an excellent idea & more people should do it - even if they don't end up using it they know it is there as a safety net, I bet it would help, psychologically by taking some of the 'pressure to remember' off.
In fact the first of my wives was recently returning to the UK after a French holiday in their car (happened to be a "Jag" and of course with British plates) with her husband (he happened until recently to be a British ambassador to a large EU country and fluent in several languages) when they stopped for a coffee mid morning in a French village not too far from the Picardie coast. There was the usual gaggle of smoking locals propped against the bar. They ordered their coffees whereupon one of the locals approached them and told theme "Feck off back to England we do ont want you 'ere!" If 'twere me I would have said something about the two world wars but they being discrete diplomats beat a cautious retreat. Oh yes and I have been told the same thing once or twice in Brittany but I can and do give back anything hurled at me! Of course you can find gross rudeness in the UK too.
Romuald has apologised for the misunderstanding so enough said.
What are other people's experiences if, like me, they have chronic brain freeze trying to remember French words? Has the person in question helped you muddle along or do you have other ways of preparing yourself before you go? I actually find speaking on the phone is even worse as you can't see people's faces/gestures and they speak soooo fast!
O level French was actually harder than A level French is now, in terms of the complexity of unseen texts for comprehension and the standard of written work expected. I gave some good A level pupils of mine unseens from O level past papers (20 years ago, for a bit of wit-sharpening) and they found them very very difficult.
There's only a tiny minority of my North African students (who all speak Arabic more or less mixed with Berber as well as French) who can read & write Arabic - they are great ones for chatting in Arabic coming into class or indeed in class and are always flabbergasted when I tell them nicely in Arabic that actually it's fine to talk but right now we're in English & I expect them to talk English (the usual reaction is "Oh mais Madame vous parlez comme la télévision!!) anyway they always ask me if I read & write Arabic & then often come at lunchtime to get me to teach them how to write their name etc. What is really sad is that sometimes their fathers are literate in Arabic but very rarely their mothers and they don't encourage them, or can't, to be literate in their other language so they miss out on what could be a fantastic advantage.
There are an awful lot of people who should be properly bilingual and aren't, this applies even to children with literate parents who have moved within Europe, I'm always amazed in class when I ask people what other languages they speak & they tell me their family is Portuguese for example but they don't speak Portuguese (for Portuguese substitute any language of your choosing). It applies to a lot of English children who get by in kitchen English and are deemed bilingual but have a massive time-lag between their English and their French, ie they write at a normal level in French for their age but are years behind in English - but because their accent is usually authentic nobody picks them up on the writing (and until I see them in class they don't often have to eg compare & contrast Elizabeth the First and Malala Yousafzai & explain what sort of a myth/hero they might epitomise...).
Ouch, Romuald Roger .. that was scathing reply but unfortunately it's is a a very true reflection of English speaking foreigners at times .. Your reply albeit true was as most French people are , sharp and lacking in tolerance .No candy coating your words at all . Just as many French do not feel comfortable with English , I too feel great embarrassment at my poor French grammar but I do try ...
It happens to all of us .... I recently travelled from France to South Africa ... much to my amusement ,I witnessed a young French man (who would have just finished his schooling so should be competent in English ) approach a airport employee and ask him a question in French .. He too offered No "hello ".... He made no attempt at using english at all ... so it is true for all of us that we are MOST comfortable with our mother tongue .. Lets practice tolerance .. not arrogance with regards to language . It makes the world a nicer place ! As for the young man , I imagine he now knows what it feels like to be in a country where nobody speaks your language ... I am sure this experience will make him more tolerant of those who do not speak French !
Thank you for your answer, Ashley. And sorry for my outburst if I misunderstood your question.
Marie-Claire and Valerie perfectly answered : don't expect too much from the civil servant. Most of them won't speak English, simply because they are not required to. Even when there is no language barrier, it can be harsh to deal with the administration.
And another thing probably hold them from using English : they cannot express themselves as precisely as in French. Therefore, if there is a misunderstanding, it will be their fault. So, they take no chance.
My only advice would be : show you're trying. You might trigger someone's will to help. :)
Ashley, I hope that you don’t think that the comment that I made above about people who move to France without being prepared to learn to speak, write and read French was aimed at you, it was not. I understand that your concern is over the difficult paper trail that will allow you to live and work here.
I saw several architect graduates who had just finished a five year degree course come ot being scarcely able to write a sentence in good English. The situation has become worse with spell checkers and texting, as it has with mental arithmetic. I started school in I think 1950, and my parents managed to see that I got a good education including French and Latin with foreign travel starting in 55. I never had more than O level French but have gradually picked it up since I bought a house in France in 72.
Oh yes, like David's wife, after I was ill and needed to get back language generally, I went to the local course, basically meant for workplace French but my doctor suggested it and got me on it. There were two local shopkeepers. One explained that his wife had left him, so after 30 years of her doing all the paperwork... The only other foreigner was a doctor whose French was fine but in fact he had never really learned to write it fluently enough. His prescriptions were being commented on. Generally, the people on the course were mixed ages including a couple of young men who had written exams at the end of their apprenticeships who wished they had listened a bit at school.
Mind you, the local literacy courses in the east of England were pretty similar, particularly where I lived with a lot of people in the racing industry and a lot of stable lads and lasses, jockeys and others who went into that world very young, even whilst at school in reality, but now wanted to be trainers or assistant trainers but lacked the literacy. During the years I served on the council we paid for quite a lot of people to do them.
So, the point is many more people than some of us perhaps imagine don't really have a handle on their own language, let alone a foreign one.
Well Ashley I seem to agree with some comments below, when one is in France its always nicer for the French if we make the effort to try, I find that they are helpful when one tries to communicate in their own language, after all when in France......
Try it out a little more and you will find that not only they will be more helpful, you will also learn more French :-) Good Luck