EU visa again

Visa Requirements
21

Puzzling.

A UK passport holder visitor (without a France CdS) would need a visa for trips over 90 days in EU.

But!…. Would a France CdS holder, being already resident in EU but still a UK national, still be considered exactly as a standard UK national tourist upon entry to another EU country other than France?

France CdS is an immigration document for within and entry to France but isn’t it also needed to present elsewhere in EU because the holder’s UK passport wouldn’t have any EU entry date stamp? Evidence of residence already in EU is required to prove the UK passport holder didn’t covertly (illegally) enter the EU.

Seems it is the CdS that records the holder’s entry and exit into the EU, in lieu of the UK passport. Hence

Remember the ‘old days’ when simply waving a blue board GB passport was enough?!

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22

I should have quantified - yes, France is home but I am retired, so the chances of needing anything more EU than I have now since discovering today that I can move freely, is very remote indeed.

23

Depends where you are. Mine took under 3 years, in Paris it can take less than a year and other regions anywhere in between. Some have a reputation for being very slow. Not sure whether it correlates with the political stance of that area.

Staff have been reduced, but the online system does generally seem to be starting to improve things and the speed is increasing. There is no cap on application numbers despite what dodgy news sites might say.

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24

Do you think it may effect 3-6 month visas?

25

It was the actual prefecture official who told him about cutting back and the increased time it was taking and she had a very strange attitude to it all with very bizarre questions which seemed very “woke” to him,asking about how he teaches pupils and nothing at all to do with France, probably because he grew up and was educated here so it was already ingrained regarding history,politics etc.

26

Possibly just semantics, but there is a big difference being restricting application numbers, and staff cutbacks only making it possible to process a certain number at a time.

The former is rather against the values of the République and contrary to the law. The latter is life in a financially strapped administration,

27

That’ll be a reflection of the bit in the concours about agir en tant que fonctionnaire de l’Etat et de façon éthique et responsable which we can be examined on by fonctionnaires of other corps (but only judged by fonctionnaires of the same category ie d’état rather than térritoriaux). It’s about the only bit of our concours other fonctionnaires can discuss with us so they tend to, in official contexts.

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28

Yes you are right, she asked about laiique a lot and he had to say it was not his subject to teach but he followed the government guidelines on everything from religious dress code, securlarity on religion, gender recognition,rasicm and so on. They have a special teacher for all that stuff in his collège but everyone knows how to tread.

29

Sadly, yes.

I saw the following in Connexion that answers a reader on the issue of travel in EU for UK nationals with France CdS. Pasted below:

Does a French residency card allow you free movement in the EU?

Understand carte de séjour and freedom of movement rules for UK passport holders in the EU

10 August 2023 12:02

EU nationality citizenship will grant you additional freedom of movement rights around the bloc’s Schengen zone – but residency permits will not Pic: GagoDesign / Shutterstock

Reader question: I have a UK passport. Will a carte de séjour give me freedom of movement in the EU or will I need to stick to the 90/180-day rule?

You wrote in your original email to us that you have a Brexit Withdrawal Agreement five-year residency card, which is a kind of carte de séjour granting you the right to reside in France.

However, it does not allow you the same rights as a European Union citizen permitting you to move freely between all the countries in the borderless Schengen zone.

The British government says: “British citizens who had been exercising free movement rights in an EU country before the end of the transition period have certain residence-related rights protected by the UK-EU Withdrawal Agreement (WA)”.

However, it adds: “The WA protections only apply in the person’s country of residence. The WA does not give free movement rights throughout the rest of the EU”.

As you are not a citizen of an EU country – you only mention having a British passport – you are still subject to the 90/180-day rule with regard to travel in other EU states.

Although your passport may not be stamped on entering another EU country from France, if you stay longer than 90 days and the country can prove this (for example from your travel documents or bank statements) they could ask you to leave.

Alongside travelling, there are also limitations when it comes to working or moving to another EU country using your Brexit WA card.

The card is only valid for the country it is granted in, meaning you cannot use a French five-year residency permit to move to live and work in Germany, for example.

To do that, you would need to apply for a German residency permit.

Note however, that under the terms of the WA, if you have a five-year WA card and want to maintain French residency rights by changing it for a ‘permanent’ card later, you should normally not spend more than six months a year away from France without good reasons, such as a temporary relocation for health reasons or education.

This has raised some issues, however, for holders of five-year cards, in some cases.

Those who had not been living in France for five years at the time of Brexit were issued a five-year WA card, as opposed to the ‘permanent’ (renewable with minimal formalities every 10 years) card that can only be lost after spending five or more years away from France.

In theory, under the WA, they would be entitled to swap it for the ‘permanent’ card after proof of five years in France, however, the latest advice from the French authorities is that WA cardholders should only apply for a permanent card when the first card is coming up for expiry, not after five years cumulatively in France.

This is liable to leave many people waiting longer for one than strictly necessary.

Are there any residency permits that allow you to live elsewhere in the EU?

After having any French residency permit for five years, and if you fulfil certain other criteria such as having been supporting yourself and having had healthcare arrangements, then you are legally eligible to apply for a kind of card called carte de résident de longue durée - UE.

This 10-year residency permit gives limited ‘freedom of movement’ rights in other EU countries, provided you fulfil the conditions to live in that country (which could be related to job offers, healthcare insurance, financial resources, etc).

In practice, however, this is mostly limited to the right to settle in the country without first obtaining a visa. You will still need to apply there for a residency permit under the local rules, to stay long-term.

If you move to a new country, you will need to ask for a residency permit there within three months of your move.

If you leave France for six consecutive years, however, you will lose your carte de résident de longue durée.

30

I think you might have been doing OK till you got to that point @Susannah :smiley:
The question you posed said nothing about 5 year cards, just CdS cards in general.
Unless things have changed, and I admit it is some time since I crossed a Schengen border, there are no checks at them where you get your passport stamped, and in any case, mine wasn’t stamped when I crossed the UK/French border either.

31

Well, the Austrian govt website definitely says differently - a resident of another EU state with a UK passport can visit as a tourist.

I did go to Austria the other day and bought the car. I flew. No checks as it was an internal flight. I asked one of their border controllers, showed him my card and passport. All he said was ‘of course it is alright’ and proceeded to ask me why ‘we’ voted to leave a good thing…

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32

I hope you said WE didn’t, weren’t asked. :grinning:

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33

Isn’t this obvious?

34

A bit sad because having a foot already through the door doesn’t count for anything in wider Europe. I understand that everything comes down to nationality but seems that is not so easy to shed. Feeling like a citizen of the world is not an officially recognised status. Pity. There are a lot of us lifelong global voyagers.
:disappointed:

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35

I hope the Connexion mentioned that the limitation of 90/180 days does not apply to Ireland for UK passport holders with EU WA residency entitlements.

36

Here’s the end bit I left off the first copy above:

Obtaining citizenship

The only way to obtain full ‘free movement’ in the EU is to obtain citizenship of an EU country.

Note, however, that even this is not completely unconditional. At least in theory, an EU citizen should not stay longer than three months in another EU country if they do not have means to support themselves and/or a job, and have arrangements for their healthcare (not necessarily a private policy, it can include joining a national system).

However EU citizens do not need to concern themselves with visas, obligatory residency cards or obtaining permission to work (note, however, that in France there are optional residency cards available to EU citizens).

——————————————————

No mention of Ireland. Ireland is not part of the Schengen Area but UK nationals gain entry via their passport.

UK passport holders can spend time in Ireland but something to note -

For the WA CdS there is a limit of time allowed out of France in one stretch before losing the right to keep the CdS. Much longer for the 10 year cards (3 years AWOL) than the 5 year (6 months away). But still a limit to bear in mind.

37

Doesn’t it cover all UK passport holders? The EU WA residency has nothing to do with it. Unless things have changed since I was last there.

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38

re @susannah post quoting the connexion -

I looked this up and it does exist, and does indeed seem to grant residency in (some) other EU countries without a visa, though maybe one has to apply for the specific residency card ‘class’. So whether it then grants rights to work in the other countries I’m not sure about - maybe it lets you stay in the country without a visa, but you might need e.g. a ‘work visa’ if you want to stay and also work.

It costs 225 EUR. Interestingly the site lists the document ‘proofs’ - which includes as an example 5 years of tax returns. :-). One has to return to France within 6 years so the same as the ‘permanent’ card.

What I’m curious about is does this card give extended Schengen rights above and beyond the ‘permanent’ ‘Article 50 TUE’ card one will get after 5 years - and which many here already have? Or does the permanent TUE card also grant FOM in a similar way? - if so I haven’t read that.

39

The Connexion article @Susannah linked to does answer that - there’s a couple of extra rights, if one has the five year card, but they’re comparatively minor. Also there are many people who have become eligible for these since Brexit, but still have the temporary card, because one is supposed to wait until it nears expiration before applying to exchange one’s card. I imagine in that situation and in another EU country,the temporary card would be insufficient proof of entitlement to these further benefits.

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