Genocide Joe's final gift, war in Europe

I have long expressed my view that there has been mismanagement by Western politicians of Russia pretty well since the Soviet collapse. At one stage there was talk of Russia joining NATO but since then there has been NATO creep until Russia was surrounded and the final straw was Bush suggesting Ukraine also join NATO, including the Russian Black Sea fleet base in Crimea. That is why Putin took Crimea back, which had only been part of Ukraine since 1954 anyway.

I do not believe that Putin wanted to annexe or occupy Ukraine in February 2022, he wanted to displace the existing pro NATO (and EU) government and once again put a Moscow compliment one in place. I believe he was goaded into this action by clumsy and over reaching actions by the West.

" At the June 2021 Brussels Summit, NATO leaders reiterated the decision taken at the 2008 Bucharest Summitthat Ukraine would become a member of the Alliance with the Membership Action Plan (MAP) as an integral part of the process and Ukraineā€™s right to determine its own future and foreign policy without outside interference.[239]

Ukraine was originally preparing to formally apply for EU membership in 2024, but instead signed an application for membership in February 2022.[240]"

Prior to the 2022 invasion I hadnā€™t read or heard of any desire on Putinā€™s part to go to war with NATO or of his western expansionist plans. But now it is very politically convenient to say Ukraine is on the front line and if they fall a NATO country is next. I donā€™t believe that was or is the case, itā€™s propaganda. Though if that should become the case it is because Putin has been pushed into a corner, and as any mad dog, will lash out and Trump has undermined NATO and many NATO countries have underinvested in defence. More mismanagement of the situation by the West.

Iā€™m not calling for appeasement John, Iā€™m calling for sensible and insightful management of the situation by Western politicians. I think the US is going to feck this up and run away leaving Europe to carry the can.

It really canā€™t.

2 Likes

Iā€™ m trying to avoid these threads now and I object to the thread title which cannot be avoided. Can we please apart from putting this stuff in the Politics thread have some restraint on titles?

Are you really suggesting that massing armour and troops on the border was some sort of sophisticated bluff and the west forced his hand? Really?

I think only the French fell for that one, no one else did.

1 Like

Chris, that would result in a nuclear strike.

Heā€™s supplying the weapons that have killed 40,000 plus people Chris, 70% of which were women and children. He could have stoped providing JDAMs and the bunker busters that have blown these children to pieces anytime. Certainly continue with defensive supplies, the Iron Dome for example but stop the weapons of mass destruction. so to speak. Biden has as much blood on his hands as Netanyahu and Genocide Joe is an appropriate sobriquet in my opinion.

Look at the latest. Fourteen to one, unconscionable.

US vetoes UN security council push to call for ceasefire in Gaza | United Nations | The Guardian

Well I donā€™t use the term at a Beano (or Dandy) level. I use it as an accurate description of what this misguided man has done.

Given the results of the recent election results in the States Iā€™m not sure we can be too sure the West is any different.

A simple mistake to make Moray. Itā€™s like those that say the Gaza conflict started on October 7th, it didnā€™t it started in 1947. Likewise the seeds for Russiaā€™s invasion of Ukraine were sown a long time before 2022.

No, but his predecessors and other leaders certainly contributed to it coming about.

1 Like

John, I think one needs to look further back to see the real causes for this conflict. At the time it was well accepted that Putinā€™s objective was regime change. One needs to look at why he wanted regime change to get to the root of them problem.

Not you necessarily. Nor me necessarily, because i only know what the western media feeds me. But nevertheless Biden is the top dog in NATO and thereā€™s a school of thought that says Putin was provoked by NATOā€™s wooing of Ukraine or perhaps Ukraines wooing of NATO.

Indeed, letā€™s try 2014 when he made his intention quite clear and was allowed to succeed.

1 Like

There might well be, but NATO has not set out to further its field of influence by force.