Michael, it is perfectly possible to have discussions regarding the differences between UK and France without it bring seen as bad manners.
We learn from our French friends and explain how UK does things.
They would love to have a more streamlined National Insurance system for example and bemoan the fact that it is impossible to effect change here.
I would also tell them that in UK our dentist wouldn't dream of closing her practice for three weeks without arranging alternative arrangements for her clients.
Of course you are right Jane. It is not "discussions" to which I referred. I have, too frequently, been present at gatherings or at state or local offices where English people who live in the country have loudly expressed opinions about their host country in terms which I have found objectionable and embarrassing. This has been more common in Cyprus than in France but the SFN Forum is not, unfortunatley, free of this either.
In the UK General Election last year, 37% of votes cast won the Conservatives another 5 years in power - and out of the 44.7m voters less than 31m voted. However the election was not followed by months of moaning from supporters of the other political parties and a general refusal to accept the result, so I am puzzled as to why we are hearing it now.
NO WE DO NOT HAVE TO ACCEPT THIS FRAUDULENT RESULT!!!!! 1.5 million 16/17 year olds excluded from this vote, whilst 65+ the largest out voters took their future away from them. 1+ million Brits living and working in the EU also excluded due to the 15 year rule which DC said he would abolish and didn't because he was under influence from the right wingers. The whole thing is a travesty of the democratic process. We must fight to get it overturned. It is not a legally binding process merely an advisory vehicle and now many of the Leavers are worried for their jobs the vote would not be the same the next time. See FB NEW EUROPEANS AND PROGRESSIVE EUROPEANS for up mto date information.
I have lived in France for 10 years and paid lots and lots of taxes, but I cannot vote for members of the French government. I accept it as it is a feature of French democracy. To say that the Referendum is fraudulent is ridiculous: it is part of UK democracy.
Btw, I voted not for selfish reasons, but for the sake of my country of birth, for my adopted country and for my sons and their families. Please show some respect for those of us who voted this way, who are not ignorant, stupid, right-wing or racist. It is worth noting that while Remainers on this site have been insulting Leave voters since before we voted, I have seen little to offend those who voted (or were unable to vote) Remain. Please don't get us started!
I didn't say any of those things, merely seriously questioned the legality of the referendum, but if the cap fits so be it. If you think its OK to exclude 2.5 million people from the democratic process that is your perogative, personally I think it is shameful and appalling.!
The rules were clearly set out before the vote. 16-17 year olds have been excluded from every election so far. Apart from Harold Wilson this has been supported by every government and opposition.
Would you have posted the same argument had the vote gone the other way?
Why should the 16-17 year olds have the vote on this? And the 65+ who voted Leave, well they had their reasons knowing what the options were outside the EU. It's not fraudulent, there was a vote. Many people turned out to vote, some didn't and some couldn't due to the 15-year rule. But the votes were counted and the majority won. What makes you think the result would be different with a second vote? It's not the best of three.
Voting age is set at the age of legal majority, in Scotland that's 16, in the rest of the UK it's 18, which is why Scottish 16-year-olds voted in the internal-to-Scotland referendum because only the Scottish electorate were concerned. For brexit it was a UK-wide vote so UK voting age applied.
Why is all this about 37% Jane? It's two per cent more than the Remain vote. 72% of eligible voters exercised their right to vote and 28% didn't for various reasons. This was an important issue and if people didn't choose to vote then they have to live with the decision made by those who did vote on the day. That's democracy.
No one has been disrespectful to those who have seriously thought before they voted.
It has become clear that those who have propounded the case for Leave have all fallen by the wayside after causing havoc. On the BBC news at one just now it appears that they are forecasting the demise of UKIP as one of their leadership candidates has been excluded because his application was seventeen minutes late and three members of its Executive Committee have now resigned.
It was manifestly unfair to promise the repeal of the fifteen year rule, but not in time for the Referendum.
To say that we are setting out to insult or offend is not true. This Referendum was badly called and not well defined.
It appears clear that many voted to show their general dissatisfaction with the government and that should have been displayed in a General Election, not in a one subject such as the Referendum which has such huge consequences.
Also the Referendum was advisory only and it appears that the Brexiteers are not willing to have proper Parliamentary debate, which is actually necessary as it will need a new Act of Parliament to authorise the UK exit from the EU.
But who are these mysterious "brexiteers" threatening your democracy, Jane?
Personally I fully expect, and welcome, a parliamentary debate and accept it as necessary before an Act is passed to begin the proceedings of extrication from the EU.
Perhaps some of the "remainerainers" are actually reluctant to enter into the debate considering that the world did not end as was predicted for an OUT vote! ;-)
I fall into neither of the camps (being 46) but perhaps my vote/ opinion is less valid as it differs from the OP? ;-) Frankly the record seems to have become stuck ref this discussion and it is ageing me now so will bow out before I reach the 65+ category or wither into dust!