I was struggling, because Daisy doesn’t quote him, exactly what she was complaining about in Geof’s view. Unless it was referring to this:
If so, I am sure no one, or at least very few, people believe that all Catholics are Nationalists and all Protestants are Unionists, but I bet we wouldn’t be far of the mark if we said that the majority in each community think that way.
On top of that there must be many these days who are atheist and therefore blur the situation anyway. Thus Carson’s view that Home Rule means Rome Rule would be irrelevant to such people, especially as the Republic is much more secular (thanks to the excesses of the Catholic church itself) these days.
I would be interested to know, Daisy, why you and your family seemed to have been so seriously targeted by both sides of the ‘divide’.
I imagine that even now for some people a mixed marriage is perceived as an affront a betrayal and a threat, I was at school in Scotland with girls from Norn Iron who would say quite seriously that ‘you can tell them by their eyes’ (‘them’ being catholics) - some had lost family members because living in Strabane or Holywood doesn’t necessarily put you out of harm’s way, eg the great-uncle of one of my school friends was blown up in his boat, and then there are the army people to add in - and of course therenare people who’see it as being in their interest to keep trouble alive as a cover for their nefarious activities (Slab Murphy). Dogma and ideology terrible.
I struggled to see what she meant too David, both in terms of specifics and her general disparagement of the whole discussion - eg. “those above who think they are familiar with the intricacies and peculiarities of this part of the world”.
In terms of my particular posts there seem to be 2 issues:
The idea that NI protestants tend to identify more with the UK (and catholics with Ireland); and
The idea that NI is closer geographically, culturally, etc, to Scotland than it is to England.
She rightly points out that these are generalisations - which of course they are - but I still for the life of me can’t see the problem with this, or with the truth - as generalisations - of both points.
I ran this by all the Irish people in my email address book yesterday as a matter of interest - so far none of them can see the problem either!
Daisy I’ve grasped the nuances since the seventies and frankly I’m fed up with the nuances. I also grasp the facts. NI is a tiny, tiny little dot with 1.8 million people and yet through the malign and continuing efforts of headbangers of both traditions it has and continues to waste an incredibly disproportionate amount of time, money and effort.
I wanted a hard border in the seventies, let them get on with it I thought. After the Brexit result I wanted a hard border, let them get on with it I thought. I still want a hard border.
Notwithstanding that I like the people of NI and that the vast majority want a quiet, peaceful, prosperous life, as long as they keep electing fundamentalist lunatics (of both flavours) to Stormont and Westminster (the nationalist ones don’t even take their seats) I want no part of them.
A hundred years is enough, sort yourselves out and come back when you have is my message
We all hoped Geof that looking at the bigger picture, “we’re all in Europe now” would blur the lines between North and South and undermine the headbangers in the Unionist and Nationalist camps. Well, I suppose it did to a degree but it’s all over now
It would be interesting to know the result of referendum held on the British mainland that asked whether the population wanted NI to remain part of UK.
I am sure that question will occupy the future historians and will needless require 1000’s of pages of analysis.
The most likely explanation is that a bunch of politicians and wealthy individuals exist(ed) who simply hate the EU on some ill defined principle (probably that we weren’t in charge), although they seemed not to understand it, nor the benefits to the UK and our position in the global political landscape, or international trade very well but their grievances have been the source of disquiet in the Tory party for years (John Major’s “bastards”).
One of the things they seemed to believe was that the hated EU was so dependent upon British membership that it would collapse without us (the putative benefits to us were that we would then forge a new Europe with us at the helm - I have a feeling I’ve heard that somewhere before.
There then followed several miscalculations by Cameron - including alienating himself from EU groups, going cap-in-hand to the EU for something he would never get (curbs on FoM) and ultimately the referendum.
Meanwhile all this was going on at a time when it turned out that a certain vein of public opinion is even easier to swing via social media than it ever was by the right wing media. Add in a badly fought remain campaign (it was uphill work, but that does not excuse the mistakes).
I actually think no group that supported Brexit has got a clear benefit, but so many have and will suffer because of it.
Yes - UKIP and subsequently the Brexit Party were eating Tory votes (and the odd Tory MP too).
I view Johnson as an empty buffoon - but there is a sense in which the actions of people like Gove were rational:
there is a misguided but intellectually coherent and long-standing line of thought on the political right around ‘deregulation’ that is actually incompatible with EU membership, because the European Social Model (as opposed to the US) absolutely requires a lot of regulation; and
the Tory Party would probably have been electorally destroyed for a generation by the split in right-wing voting had it not ultimately embraced brexit.
Brexit was indeed pointless from our perspective, but I can quite see how it appeared right on point to Tories once UKIP etc gained traction.
The presidency of Ireland is just a lucrative sinecure. Nice work if you can get it 
