I suspect that while the UK beavers away preparing trade deals with the Commonwealth and other nations, and EU countries try to work out how to deal with Greece and the € we will all arrive at a better way forward - one thing is sure, nothing can remain as it was and if the EU does not reform itself it will collapse. By the time the UK leaves the EU even ardent remainers may be saying "thank heaven we got out while we could", but I hope not. The best outcome is for the UK to trade freely without being ruled by the EU elite, and the EU can thrive without excessive concentration on political union. One of the strengths of Europe is the contrasting cultures and abilities of the various countries. Walk down the Cheese lanes of any European supermarket and you will see metres of local cheese, plus some from the same nation, and little from any other country, EU or otherwise. That's how Europe has always worked, with the notable exception of the UK. The UK is Europe's exception, and we should be making the most of that.
David, democracy does not work when the argument you put forward is based on untruths, the big red lie bus being an obvious example.
Those of us who wished to remain are not so easily fooled into thinking that the leavers have changed their spots overnight and can now be trusted.
I have no wish to live in an isolationist UK and can only hope that Theresa May can keep the right wing shouters under better control than David Cameron.
Diana, whilst the UK is still a member if the EU it is not allowed to undertake trade negotiations on its own behalf.
I do think it completely ridiculous and unfair to suggest that anyone that voted "leave" was easily-fooled / stupid. Lies and fear were used on both sides but most intelligent people are able to discern fact from fiction and make an informed decision. Let's not get side-tracked into the Brexit debate again here - time to move onwards and upwards and address the issues that face us all.
Maybe not formally , but I bet that private phonecalls have been/are bing made, just to prepare for the 'off' when article 50 (?) is trigged in Dec/January......
How strange that it now appears that many people voted Leave because they wanted to express their dissatisfaction with the Establishment as a whole. They really did not want to leave the EU at all.
Scottish and Northern Irish voters want their country to remain in the EU and there are very difficult questions to sort out, especially regarding the border with the Irish Republic.
My constituency, Stroud voted remain, perhaps their wishes should be respected as well.
ok....I can understand how you feel.
Pray tell me what is the fact and what is the fiction!
It is clear enough to me to know when I see 'foreign' people filled with anger and
jelousy at the benefits which other 'foreigners' are receiving in UK. This type of thinking is
not totally bright!
Jane, I can assure you that my decision to vote Leave was based upon extensive research and investigated by the open mind of one who enjoyed an excellent British education. I heard lies and exaggeration from both sides and worked out which bits I believed and which I did not. I opened my eyes and analysed what I saw around me in my home town and in my adopted village and reached an informed and sensible conclusion. My only regret was that the Leave campaign was hi-jacked by the Conservative party in an effort to silence UKIP and Farage, and I didn't trust the tories at all and still don't. I haven't changed my spots, I am proud of them, but you can certainly trust me. I don't want to live in an isolated UK, either, but neither of us live in the UK anyway, do we?
Oh please let's not get into the Brexit debate again. Lies and fear on both sides but one side got more votes than the other ... that's democracy. Both sides had idiots and both sides had misinformation but that's history.
Returning to the original post, re. xenophobia. We've experienced nothing. A few French friends have remarked it was an "interesting outcome" but there's been nothing negative that we've experienced.
good reply Diana
We can discuss future plans with whoever we like, we just can't sign them.
Democracy, as it stands, means that the majority vote is carried for the defined area / zone so where would you stop? This village had a majority to leave, that street had the majority to stay etc. If people don't agree with the current system then they can work to change how the thing works but I daresay there is no system that will ever be completely fair or suit everyone. As part of a democratic society we sign up to abide by its rules in order to benefit from the freedoms and power it allows us - a luxury not afforded to many millions around the world.
Quite agree, Sandy. I have some French friends and family that are disappointed with the result and others who feel that they have been cheated out of having the same debate and choice. However, none of this is directed at me or my family whom they see as an integrated part of local life here. Undoubtedly there will be idiots who feel that the Brexit vote gives them some legitimicy to air their xenophobic views but this will always be the case, I fear!
Diana, many others did not do that and were swayed by the appalling lies of Michael Gove et al.
The Referendum was instigated by Cameron to try and stop the extreme right wing in his own party not the whole party.
The referendum should have been required to have a two thirds majority to be successful.
That is too late, but if you think that I will forget what has happened, dream on.
i too can not forget what has happened!
Interested to hear your reasoning ref two thirds majority being required - this is not required for a general election so why move the goal posts for this issue?
As for the "Leave" voters being largely too-easily swayed, one could always post the counter-argument that the "Remain" voters were too easily cowed by fear into voting as they did - are they all too stuck-in-the mud to embrace change? / Cowards who would sacrifice the good of their country to maintain the status quo? This is not my view, by the way, just trying to counter balance your opinion. Whilst no supporter of Cameron himself, I think he does deserve credit for giving the nation the referendum that many millions wanted and needed. Sadly he didn't prepare for failure and misread the country.
Anyway, no more Brexit debate here. Clearly we have very different views but I embrace the fact that we live in a democracy where we can politely exchange our views and opinion in a positive and non-derogatory manner. Long may it continue!
A general election is held every five years and on a subject of such importance a larger majority should be necessary.
Actually this referendum was only advisory and UK is suppose to be a Parliamentary democracy, so it really shpuld be debated in the Commons, but the leavers are still shouting loudest.
Yes as a British citizen I am aware of the electoral system but disagree that some decisions need different rules to others. I certainly hope the matter is debated in the commons - not as to whether or not to accept the instructions of the people but to unite all parties around a cohesive plan which will help the country to move forward and thrive.
As for those shouting loudest, my experience has been that the miffed Remain tribe have done nothing but rant and rave and rail against the vote all over FB and these other forums - hence why I have given them all a wide bearth for a while, not to mention throwing insults and ill-informed judgements towards anyone who dares to disagree o challenge them. I am all for healthy debate and discussion but no one likes a sore loser .
Yes, so true as to your second paragraph....we have been shouted at, shunned, insulted as to intelligence, selfishness, racist biggots, etc....you name it and it has been spitefully slung. Our experience has been that 'leavers' have either kept their heads down or have refused to lower themselves to the bitter debating level of the losing 'remain' side. And our overwhelming opinion is how much more 'dirty' a campaign the remainers fought - worse than for the Scottish Referendum, and thankfully the fear-factor rubbish won't be able to be wheeled out a third time and succeed.
I know alot of friends and ex-colleagues who voted to leave and non of them voted on the basis of being 'p******d off' with the establishment...but much more on the basis of 'loss of control' ......as cited on the Toby Young programme (which I have mentioned at least 3 times on this forum)
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/brexit-facts-not-fear/
and the Paxman programme.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pGOzhhOAF8
I was leaning heavily towards Leave, but these 2 really confirmed my vote. There have been other things that I have come across since to do with socalled EU initiatives/projects being backed by corporations..where the supposed 'independent study' for prompting the project/initiative, has been directly lifted from people at these corporations.....We all know about the EU's wasteful spending and inability to audit the books for about 16 yrs ?......