Oh wow thanks for sharing, as I was not aware of that so interesting point. When it comes to tax return filling I will remember that. The other point a friend mentioned this morning was that he thought there was also a 10% reduction for UK tax purposes so any feedback on that would also be very interesting!
Starting to understand the removals business is a very competitive world
I think UK Landlords now have to have an electrical certificate as well (EICR?) though I believe itâs every five years not annually.
Yes furniture is very problematic - when I left the UK to move to Turks & Caicos in 2003 I ended up paying a âman with a vanâ to take my furniture to the tip - charities were not interested.
Inventory completed and also added cost to each item based on ebay values for vaguely similar items. Amazing how secondhand goods are so relatively low cost in UK versus France. Hope that works in my favour. The one thing I am a bit concerned about is how the customs folks may look at my artwork in terms of value - hopefully the wont like it
When I moved back to the UK (using a shipping container) the removal company handled the manifest and made black wattle packing cases for all the art and other stuff. As a result I unknowingly imported all sorts of things that probably wouldnât have been allowed, or wouldâve been charged import duty including carved warthog tusks (erroneously classed as ivory) various traditional weapons and the very comprehensive contents of the cocktail cabinet.
Landlord obligations are changing all the time and you may well be correct. I am reactive to my agents guidance rather than looking for changes in legislation. I will follow the rules as a caring landlord should. Paying for an electrical safety test every 5 years is far better than a gas safety check every 12 months that can range from ÂŁ75 upwards.
I have just been through the âcorrectâ process, since the one year period of grace since we moved to French residency is now long expired, and the customs (at Calais) when I last tried it on would not accept the usual inventory. Instead they required me to head to the offices that house various customs brokers, about 100 yds from the Douane offices at Calais port. I chose DFDS, partly because I travelled with them and also theirs was the first office door in the corridor. It took DFDS about 3 hours to sort it out, process my payment and provide me with the necessary stamped document, DFDS fees for a single item (an old Truck Camper) 60 euros, customs duty 30 euros, plus VAT at 20% on a declared value of 2500 euros.
What I have learned : -
A) Many people sail straight through without stopping. However a) the Douanes can be alerted by customs/security at Dover or on the ship, so you might be intercepted anywhere en route and not just at the port - and b) I donât want to risk my residency by transgressing. This also applies to second home owners taking possessions from the UK into France.
B) If the weight of what you are carrying is under 1 tonne and the value is less than 1000 euros you do not need a customs broker, and can just make a simple attestation with an inventory at the Port (probably best to have it all in triplicate, with copies of passport and residency etc to ease their task, as if you were bringing it in within the one year change of residence grace period. (I have tried to do this at Calais Customs HQ and been sent back into the Port). The Douanes usually state that this relates to goods of a commercial nature, but I gathered from DFDS that it also applies to personal possessions in your own vehicle that are over the limit and so subject to duty and VAT.
In the Q&A on the douanes website (https://www.douane.gouv.fr/sites/default/files/2021-12/27/Questions-Reponses-Dispositif-ATVAI-2022-Operateurs.pdf) it states: âIn accordance with article 135(1)(b) of delegated regulation 2015/2446 of the Code of Union customs, goods of a commercial nature, provided that they do not exceed the threshold of 1000 euros in value or 1000 kg in net mass, may be declared verbally for release into free circulation. In this case, the services customs officials recover, where applicable, duties and taxes by means of a receipt (known as âreceipt 155â).â
I now strongly recommend that if you want to be squeaky clean, you ensure the value is less than 1000 euros, keep the apparent weight under 1 tonne, and make a verbal declaration. As to value, it is perfectly acceptable apparently to declare that some items have zero value. For all other items I have tried to find the fire sale value. Having done this now several times, they are more concerned about the paperwork, and they have never examined the items I have declared.
C) I have also paid the duty and TVA before travelling recently. It took me two weeks back and forward with DFDS customs brokers. The DFDS check-in staff and truck ticketing staff all disagreed with the Customs Brokers about the correct process as well, so we were significantly delayed at Dover {lesson here is do not tell the ferry company what you are doing}.
I ended up paying the DFDS Brokers about 600 Euros in fees {too many commodity codes}, and then 20% VAT and duty on top⊠ie for the value that I declared as about 2500 euros of goods overall it cost me almost 1100 euros. With the benefit of hindsight I would have been better doing 3 trips, under 1000 euros each time, even if you have to rent a small van.
D) If you are using a removals firm, they apparently have to do as I did in C) above. [They may wing it in fact, but its not legal]. This involved a specific inventory: each inventory line relating to all the items associated by you with a specific Commodity Code [link below]; net and gross weight [ie the difference is the packaging]; value in Euros; brief summary of the items, and the number of instances of each item. DFDS include 4 commodity codes in the initial 60 euro fee, then charge currently 8 euros for each additional Commodity Code. My earnest recommendation is that you use the fewest most generic codes if you go this route, but they are complex. The Brokers then upload the info into the Douanes database, which has some barriers and error checking, so its not entirely straightforward even for them. Then they finally get a calculation of duty and VAT to be paid, and can prepare the import forms with a QR Code. While truckers can scan these QR Codes at the port, eg Dover, private vehicles can not. The Brokers requested that I call them when I arrived at Calais. So I parked up on arrival in the port, and then they manually activated the QR code, and we were called back about half an hour later to say we had a green light to leave the port (it might have been orange, to head to the customs offices in the Port for interrogation or inspection).
UK govt website for Commodity Codes is at: [Trade Tariff: look up commodity codes, duty and VAT rates - GOV.UK]. Some commodity codes require specific additional licences so its a minefield. Commodity Code 9919000020 can be used for all personal property collected as part of an inheritance, or being moved within the 1 year grace period if accompanied by CERFA form 10070*03.
Blimey, thatâs incredibly useful information but I balked at the amount of effort involved and the cost!
What I took was valuable to me, much more so than the declared value, so I already knew approximately how much duty and TVA I was in for. (Much of it was inherited furniture and items from my parents, e.g paintings, and the like).
I was also aware of the requirement to use a Customs Broker if over 1000kg/1000 euros. So I anticipated the 60 euro fee, but not the 8 euros per commodity code, plus a fee for export and import. Hence it built up to approx 600 euros by stealth. My alternative was to have rented a small unit and do several trips under the limit and so avoiding customs broker fees completely. However I totted up those costs, approx 75 gbp per month, plus two more trips, fuel etc, and delay, and decided that there was not much in it.
(To declare it as an inheritance there are more hoops, including a UK notarised list with the Will, the probate values and not fire sale values, and a time limit of a year again, so by the time you add up the payments for the solicitor to process it and the delay you might be better off with duty and TVA instead.)
DFDS asked me to get clarification from (mailto:pae-dunkerque@douane.finances.gouv.fr). I got a clear and swift response to both inheritances and being outside the residency grace period of one year as follows (my application of bold at the bottom):
"Bonjour,
Sâagissant dâune importation dans le cadre dâune sucession le bĂ©nĂ©fice de la franchise est rĂ©servĂ© aux personnes ayant leur rĂ©sidence normale sur le territoire français.
Les modalitĂ©s dâapplication de la mesure sont dĂ©crites en fiche 3 de la circulaire 7455 disponible Ă lâadresse suivante : 7455 - Bod du 2022-04-01
En ce qui concerne les dĂ©mĂ©nagements, les personnes physiques, qui Ă©taient installĂ©es depuis au moins douze mois consĂ©cutifs dans un pays tiers, et qui transfĂšrent leur rĂ©sidence normale sur le territoire français peuvent importer en franchise de droits et taxes, les biens personnels qui leur appartiennent. Lâimportation peut ĂȘtre effectuĂ©e en une ou plusieurs fois, au cours dâun dĂ©lai dâun an, Ă compter de la date de lâĂ©tablissement par lâintĂ©ressĂ© de sa rĂ©sidence normale dans lâUE. Les modalitĂ©s sont dĂ©crites en fiche 1 de la mĂȘme circulaire.
Au delĂ du dĂ©lai de 1 an, les biens doivent ĂȘtre dĂ©clarĂ©s dans les conditions de droit commun, par lâentremise dâun dĂ©clarant en douane, et acquitter les droits et taxes.
Cordialement,
Direction Régionale des douanes de Dunkerque"
Hats off to you for providing such precise and detailed information. If there was an SF post of the day/week award, youâve won it!
I agree. Thank you, @JoCo , for such a useful and detailed account.
Thanks. I must admit when I was very frustrated with the process, I thought at least I could spare others the same anguish.
@JoCo thanks alot for such a massively comprehensive amount of detail - very very much appreciated. I was thinking of bring some items back myself but starting to think otherwise and get all items transported by a removal company. Iâve had quotes from ÂŁ1500 - ÂŁ6500 so a massive range. Now need to sift through and converge! A nasty job but necessary! At least I can now start to see a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel
Youâll be fine, the UK usually basks in 2nd hand french weather, well in the south anyway
That did make me smile
Rapidly converging on the ÂŁ1500 quote which includes insurance, customs clearance and loading/unloading + can meet my date. Hopefully not too good to be true but decision time tomorrow I thinkâ:crossed_fingers:
does seem to be a very low cost, considering move from Surrey to 34â:thinking: and at that price Iâm happy to follow @DrMarkH suggestion of getting everything down here to sort, as will take the pressure off while Iâm in the UK between one tenant moving out and the other in!
Oh gosh, the best laid plans outbound flight booked yesterday, then today the lowest cost mover wants to deliver quickly so need to be back in France soon after the collection, so now looking to see if poss to change ryanair flight within 24 hours, as would now plan to go earlier. Undoubtedly not the last âbumpâ in the road, but serenity continues
Good luck with that little detail
It would depend on the cost of the flight as to whether I would bother or just book another flight.
Will report back