Three lots of notaires have approved the tontine clause in purchase / sale / purchase. We have been married for over fifty years and our two children are the children of our marriage. They know that everything will be left to share between them when the last one of us dies and do not need, want or expect anything before that.
I do understand that it can be complicated for people in some circumstances.
They can legally refuse sucession and even then,if it gets frozen with paperwork, they can then accept within ten years of the decés, that is what I and my children had to do so know how the system works.
They could re-accept the inheritance within ten years if they wished to - the inheritance passes to vacant possession and there is a regional government office that deals with this - I know, been there and got the teeshirt until we re-accepted within the tenyear limit!
I think the survivor would sell the house, but their will would be updated to leave it to the two direct heirs anyway. The house isn’t difficult to manage, but would be more than one of us would need. Fortunately it is just off a major route into the nearest city, so property tends to sell quickly.
Thanks Shiba.
I think in our case - where it’s just a niece and nephew who don’t really need the inheritance anyway as they both have good jobs - it would be easier for them if I just left them the UK property.
There is no way they would cope well with French paperwork (the English son of my friend who died here recently is going nuts because the French notary never replies to emails, in line with my own experience of notaries) and given that they would have to pay tax at 55% on anything I left them in France, it would make more sense to leave the French assets to the SPA.
This thread is interesting for me because I had toyed with the idea to buy out Fran’s 3 kids since the Notaire insisted on a valuation of the house. This would I thought make the eventual inheritance of my own 2 children easier for them. Not sure that they would want to pay the tax that has been spoken of though.
However, I had thought to make an offer less than half the valuation but again, in view of the tax issue which I am sure would put them off, I now realise that an even lower offer could be made to them. On the other hand, if my kids can’t take advantage for the same reasons, why should I bother? Because of the D E E I have free rein here for life so might as well plod on as usual. 
Not possible in France as Trust’s are considered as tax avoidance.
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My husband and I bought our house with a tontine clause.
This means that when one of us dies, the other gets the entire property. Our French vendors were confused by it but the notaire said that it’s really common with British couples.
Hi Michael
I’ve recently returned from Avignon to Cardiff I found a removal company through Shipley, I had quotes ranging from 1036 to 6500 pound. Chose the cheapest which was from the company called lenyx. They arrived 2 hours late but other than that they were excellent. Hope this helps you. Regards Trevor
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So @George1 we have no children but we both have sibling. So, by writing a French will that distributes our assets, we can in effect disinherit so e or all of our siblings using this method ? Do we need to change our regime to do this ?
Our situation is complicated as OH does not want her siblings to inherit, but I have no issue with that. So, we would want surviving spouse to inherit in full and then when surviving spouse dies we want to be able to distribute our assets appropriately.
This has become i portant to us in the last week as a goos friend that we both met at our first Year at University suddenly died and amongst the grief it has made us think about this.
This topic is far from any area I am knowledgeable about, and I would strongly suggest approaching your notaire for proper advice regarding whether you need to change your regime and write wills (if not already done).
However, my understanding is that if, for example, you have a regime of separation de biens (eg following a marriage in England), and there are no children, you each have absolute ownership of your share of the various family assets. Each can ensure that with a suitably drafted French will, the surviving spouse can inherit the deceased spouse’s share of assets, and can in turn leave them to whoever they like on their death (aka disinherit who you dislike!).
There are many more knowledgeable people on SF who can opine with greater authority on this issue, I’m sure…
Edit - sorry to hear about your friend, that must have come as a terrible shock, and yes it gives us all pause for thoughts…
Thanks for that @George1 . I assume that the only caveat to what you say is that children could not be disinherited, which in our case is moot. Yes, we will shortly be looking for advice for this and get it all in place, as the friend who died was the same age as us, was extremely fit and had no previous health issues.
Jane, do you know if there are bands for IHT like the UK under £325k no IHT etc?
The SPA need help everywhere, they do a good job in most cases. Had to laugh at the one here along the road, they currently have two female fat porkers for adoption.
Do you mean the allowance for each inheritor in France? It was €150,000 max for each of my children when we did the sucession. One thing that no one has mentioned is that if you sell the house as a surviving spouse and you have had works done since THE FIRST VALUATION OF THE PROPERTY AFTER DEATH, you need to be able to proove it with official invoices and upto around €21,000 is allowed for works before it becomes taxable. I got hit with this, 8 hours before signing the final acte and leaving but luckily we had all the papers online including all the official works invoices, loans and other monies used and did not have to pay an extra €8000 at the signing of the acte.
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At least around 2011 notaire told me in the case of immeubles / ‘real’ property in France even without children you can’t leave it to who you like - siblings, parents and I am not sure how much further in the family will override a will.
Is the correction of this to enable free choice, the thing where apparently now France will have to change to conform to European laws?
We want to ask a notaire again, but what worries me is there aren’t many foreigners around here, and so the notaires don’t have any experience. Plus, I believe they don’t earn much from testaments, and are therefore not so interested, preferring more lucrative house sales. How can we be 100% sure that we are getting the right information? The last one we consulted couldn’t answer all our questions, said she had to rechercher and would ring me, which she never did. We didn’t take it any further as she seemed arrogant and uninterested.
There are avocats who specialise in inheritance and marriage issues, my friend had to see one last year regarding her four children who had been left out of inheriting anything from their biological french father who had remarried and hidden his wealth from his first family. She got a lot sorted out and the children got some inheritance.
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The UK marriage regime is séparation des biens. In France it’s mostly communitê de vie, so no need.
Just in case anyone is interested, this is the wills wording our notaire dictated to us to hand write.
We had asked her for wording leaving everything to the surviving spouse, and then on the death of the latter, to French charity. She knew we were married in England. The English translation below is for convenience, especially if like me, your understanding of French legal terms is fairly rudimentary…I slightly struggled to read my own writing, so any spelling/grammar mistakes are mine!
"Je soussigné M.Xxxx George, demeurant à xxxxx, né à xxxx le xxxxxx.
Sain de corps et d’esprit fait mon testament comme suit pour les biens mobiliers et immobiliers que je possède revoquant toutes autres dispositions a cause de mort pour ceux ci.
J’institue pour ces biens pour légataire universel en toute propriété mon conjoint Mme xxxxx.
Au cas où je lui survivrai, la totalité de mes biens sera recueillie par [la Société Protectrice des Animaux, 39 blvd Berthier, Paris.]
Fait et écrit en entier de ma main à xxxxx, le xxxxx."
I, the undersigned M. Xxxx George, residing at xxxxx, born in xxxx on xxxxxx.
Being of sound mind and spirit, make my will as follows for the movable and immovable property that I own, revoking all other dispositions on death for these.
I appoint my spouse Mme xxxxx as universal legatee in full ownership of these assets.
In the event that I survive her, all of my assets will be collected by the Society for the Protection of Animals, 39 blvd Berthier, Paris.
Done and written in full by my hand at xxxxx, on xxxxx."
EDIT to reflect Karen’s correction below of ‘esprit’!
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