Like you all my PAYE type income comes from abroad (thus cannot actually be taxed at source) but that, as I see it, is my problem not the Impôt’s I still have to pay monthly (I just checked and it is monthly). Maybe if you have only recently become tax resident here it’ll be different for year one but otherwise this is the only game in town IMO. The process for me was as follows:
February 15th '17 pay first tranche of estimated 2017 tax (based on 2016 actual)
May 15th '17 pay second tranche of estimated 2017 tax (based on 2016 actual)
May 30th '17 submit 2017 tax declaration.
September 15th pay final tranche of 2017 tax which is a balancing payment based on 2017 actuals.
From which your monthly Prélèvement for 2019 has been calculated.
January '19 the first prélèvement “a la source” is made from one’s bank account.
May 30th 2019 submit 2018 tax declaration.
June (or whatever) Impôts issue tax credit equal to the 2018 tax due (excluding extraordinary items)
I just logged onto the Impôt’s site and ferreted around and found what my monthly prélèvement will be, though they haven’t been sent me any emails, warnings etc. It’s available by clicking on the top section.
Andy, log on to the Impôts website and follow the link to Gérer mon prélèvement à la source, as I show above. It will show you the frequency and amount.
Ah… we are in different situations… our Pensions are Taxed in UK (sometimes zero, sometimes not) … and we declare everything in France the following year… and France works out if we owe them anything…or not (currently, not).
We’ve been in the system nearly 20 years… and everyone seems quite happy with us… neither UK nor France have suggested any changes to our status quo… but we are pensioners and not making waves…
I think we have been emphasising that New Arrivals will need to speak face to face with Tax Folk to make their first Declaration…
and from said Declaration… the Tax Folk will make the calculations as to what is due (and when)…(maybe something, maybe zero)…
This whole new system is a major topic of conversation within our group of friends and neighbours… some roll their eyes, at the “horror” of it all… others smile and shrug their shoulders… after a few glasses, most reckon that it will all work out OK in the end…
The big issue in France was privacy. You’ll see many articles reassuring people that their employers etc. will not be able to see their patrimone. The big issue for expats IMO is that if one leaves France there is no longer a year’s tax to pay or when one pops one’s clogs a residual tax liability for loved ones. We’ve gained a year’s tax. You sadly won’t because your tax credit will be zero. Which is also the case on one of my investments which is taxed abroad.
I don’t plan to change my fiscal residence either but do you plan to die? I’d prefer my daughter to have the cash than the Impôts when I go. Actually, if you are paying your tax in the UK and also declaring it here you are getting a tax credit from the Impôts every year - you just won’t get the “big one” next year
Stella, it’s done. It is the only way to avoid people paying tax twice next year. We just miss out on the amounts taxed abroad. Obviously the Impôts aren’t going to give us a credit for sums they haven’t collected.
This is the section from the Q&A you sent me explaining how it will work.
“Comment serai-je informé de l’annulation de mon impôt sur les revenus 2018 ?”
"Tous les contribuables devront déposer une déclaration de leurs revenus 2018 au printemps 2019 et disposeront de leur avis d’impôt correspondant à l’été 2019.
L’impôt sur les revenus courants et entrant dans le champ de la réforme sera effacé par l’octroi d’un crédit d’impôt modernisation du recouvrement (CIMR).
Si le contribuable a perçu uniquement des revenus non exceptionnels entrant dans le champ du prélèvement à la source, par exemple des salaires courants ou des pensions de retraite, il ne paiera aucun impôt sur ses revenus 2018 (la totalité de son impôt sera annulée par le CIMR) et bénéficiera, le cas échéant, d’un remboursement correspondant au montant des réductions ou crédits d’impôt au titre de l’année 2018.
S’il a perçu des revenus hors du champ du prélèvement à la source ou présentant un caractère exceptionnel, par exemple des plus-values de cession de valeurs mobilières, il pourra avoir un solde d’impôt sur le revenu à payer en 2019.
Tous ces éléments seront calculés automatiquement par l’administration fiscale sur la base de la déclaration de revenus."
“Les revenus exceptionnels perçus en 2018 ne bénéficieront pas de l’effacement de l’impôt. Ils devront être identifiés par les contribuables sur leur déclaration des revenus de 2018 à déposer en 2019”
Can I have a simple answer to my tax question, my head spins?
All my income is from UK state and government pensions. I’m tax-resident in France.
I pay about £2,500 pa tax to HMG. I declare all my pre-tax income to the revenu here in France, and am taxed on the gross, not the net. Is this right?
If not, where am I going wrong? I showed all my income details and UK tax returns to the revenu here and they filled in the declaration for me, using my pre-tax figures, not post-UK tax figures.
For your U.K. pension income you declare the gross figure on your French tax return. The only time I had to declare income as net was when my bank interest in the U.K. was taxed in the U.K. and the net figure taxed again in France. I was unable to get my U.K. bank to stop paying tax on the money. These days it’s better as they have changed the system and pay all interest gross putting the onus on their customers to declare the income.
Our state pensions are paid directly into our French bank, no need to convert to euros.
Our private pensions are paid into the UK bank and we convert them into Euros using the rate of exchange on the day.
These are the figures we declare on our tax form, we pay no tax in the UK and our pensions income is too low here to pay tax either !
Thanks, Ann. The same applies to me, OAP paid direct in Euros, other pension into UK bank accounts after UK tax. No UK tax due on OAP, but other pension is taxed in UK, what is left is taxed here, whether I bring it to France or not, and most of it goes on UK family commitments.
What is the income threshold for a retired couple over 75 in France, above which we become liable to be taxed (assuming no abatements)? Does anyone know? I don’t want bother the tax office locally, it might be seen as reluctance to pay our reasonable dues, and in this wretched pre-Brexit climate that might not be viewed sympathetically
Don’t ask me which boxes the sums should go in - but my understanding is the UK state pension plus any private pension/employer pension goes in one set of boxes - these should be taxed in France not the UK. So all gross.
Any “Government” pension goes in a different box and is taxed in the UK. Declared - counts to your “income” and thus your tax band - but I thought you entered gross and tax paid in the UK they then use the figures for the overall picture.
My income goes in different boxes - but I enter gross and UK taxes paid - they then calculate my French tax from that - but basically any UK tax correctly paid should be deducted by the tax people here from your tax bill - but the gross is used to calculate your income.
In my case - lets say I earn 15k - pay 1k tax in the UK - the French take that as my income is £15k for tax bands - they deduct my UK tax from their tax bill - but my incomes odd
We don’t pay tax in the UK on our private company pension. The UK did tax it once but when they had our tax number from France a refund was given.
Peter, do go and see your tax office, they will have had others asking a variety of questions and they won’t think that you want to get out of paying. They are not ogres, over the years I have built up a good relationship with the lady who is in charge of ours. I always start with ‘sorry to bother you again, but I don’t want to make a mistake so would like some help please.’ Always met with understanding and useful advice.
She is actually going to help me go ‘online’ with my taxes next year. ‘phew’
The first step is always the hardest
PS; above a certain age you won’t have to pay tax d’habitation, taxe fonciere or tv licence
I still have to pay monthly (I just checked and it is monthly). Maybe if you have only recently become tax resident here it’ll be different for year one but otherwise this is the only game in town IMO. The process for me was as follows:
