AND ALSO, a reminder that if selling any UK assets, such as shares or investment funds, do the numbers in euros first or you may find you have unexpected gains ā¦ or unexpected losses, of course, but in the case of tax loss harvesting that would actually be a good thing!
This is something I really need to look at in the next year, before we become properly French resident, to see if I need to do some cashing in to deal with capital gains while still under UK tax arrangements.
Plus, if you have an ISA, sell the lot - even if youāre keeping the ISA, sell and buy back to establish a new base cost. I didnāt, and now find I have to be really careful how I liberate my money, and now am paying capital gains on 20 years of gainsā¦ ouch.
@Andrea_Kirkby thatās exactly what I was thinking of and Iām not sure that I could reasonably calculate the gains.
CGT allowances in the UK have recently been reduced and may be cut again for 24/25.
Add that to the list of things I didnāt know.
Does that mean that, for example for a 1990 ISA, a UK resident could simply sell all his holdings in Porridge Europe and Porridge Global Growth and reinvest in the same funds, and that would (for French tax purposes) wipe out all his capital gains up to that point?
Basically, yes. It might be best to switch to Oatmeal Europe and Oatmeal Global Growth just to be sure, but thatās perfectionism.
Yes itās called ābed and breakfastingā and a common practice with all sorts of investments.
So:
last date of current UK tax year is 5th April
first date of new UK tax year is 6th April
So sell on or before 5th April and buy back.
If your investment value has increased, say, by Ā£10k since you purchased, and you sell it, you have a Capital Gain of Ā£10k.
Luckily current UK Capital Gains Tax exemption, per annum, is Ā£12.5k (forgot the exact value but itās around that). So if you sell by 5th April you wonāt have to pay CGT if your profit is only Ā£10k.
If you didnāt sell till 6th April or after, so were in a new tax year, and youād made another, say, Ā£6k over the purchase price by the time you sold, youād have made a Capital Gain of Ā£16k. So after your CGT exemption of Ā£12.5k, youād pay a very high rate of tax on the other Ā£3.5k you made, if you sold it all in the same year.
Worse, Jeremy Hunt might lower the CGT exemption in a future tax year - say to Ā£5k. So then youād have to pay CGT on Ā£11k out of your Ā£16k profit suddenly if you sold all in same tax year.
CGT exemption was about Ā£20k for yonks till not much more thsn 1 year ago - upsetting some who werenāt ābed and breakfastingā each year to use up their CGT allowance, and as Andrea mentioned, also taking the opportunity to re-base prices (i.e.set a new, frequently higher, āposition CGT zeroā price base from which any new capital gains will be calculated in future).
Andrea mentions ISAās because while you remain a UK resident all gains in ISAās are tax free so you donāt need to bed and breakfast. But France wonāt treat your ISA as tax free so you should sell to rebase the investment, and crystallise any gains, while you are still UK resident. Then when resident in France consider if you want to opt for capital gains to be treated as income in any calendar year, by informing the ImpĆ“ts by the required date in that calendar year, as CGT is also quite swingeing in France and for some it will work out better to have profits on investments / sales of assets treated as income.
A well drafted, nuanced and nicely pivoted explanation (not advice!) to UK / France CGT. Just the sort of stuff helpful and a good reminder to us forimites - thanks!
I also loved
for
I recall the thread āwhats the point of forumsā - all this info and reminders are so helpful - even if background info!
Personally myā bed and breakfastā at the mo is I send revolut Ā£100 at 1am to buy euros at 1.1680 and at 10 or 11pm send it back when they havenāt! ā¦ Iāve paused that now.
Generally a counterproductive move because people just hold on to their assets. Which is why CGT tax reductions counterintuitively produce an increase in CGT revenues.
The rule of using all your allowances every year a sound one. Thatās not only for your tax but also in terms tax free gifts to children etc.
ācase of tax loss harvestingā an interesting concept, my barn runneth over Itās finding the gains to offset them against thatās been the problem since the financial crises
Can I just add a few afterthoughts/updates on bed and breakfasting (B&B) for UK capital gains tax purposes?
Courtesy of one Gordon Brown as Chancellor, it is now very difficult to successfully rebase shares/unit trusts etc (technically any āsecuritiesā) by selling and buying back immediately.
Brown effectively neutered the CGT advantages back in 1998 for sales and buybacks within 30 days. Such transactions effectively keep their original cost (on future disposals) NOT their new rebased costs. Of course thereās nothing (tax wise) to stop people selling and buying back within 30 days - it just wonāt have the desired tax effects. Buybacks AFTER 30 days are effective for CGT purposes, but of course this risks adverse market moves eg if the shares bought back have subsequently increased in value! There are some limited B&B arrangements that are still tax effective, usually involving transactions between spouses, or involving ISAs.
Here is a link to a useful article for those interested
Sadly also the UK CGT annual exemptions are truly plummeting in value. They were worth Ā£12,300 in 22/23, are Ā£6,000 in the current year 23/24, and will go down even further to Ā£3,000 next UK tax year, 24/25.
I wondered if you have a broker or investment adviser who has the details of all your investments, as they should be able to run a CGT calculation/projection for you very easily?