I think you are both right. For myself I was always a committed European and couldn’t wait for full integration, I thought of myself as a European citizen first and foremost and, to have that snatched away from me for no good reason, as I saw it, was the worst part of the whole affair.
It might in part explain my decision not to go for nationality when I could have breezed it (apart from the documentation of course), because I felt it was in contradiction of my natural reluctance to commit to a single national state, and that included the British one.
This is fair comment - no institution is perfect - however, there are two aspects to the UK Brexit referendum and its aftermath worth noting.
One - the referendum question was binary - in or out - there was no third option to mandate the UK Government to pursue any kind of EU reform.
Two - the Brexit we got was very far from what was promised - Michael Gove and David Davis and others were on record as saying that there was no question of leaving the Single Market, “nothing will change” and “there will be no downsides to Brexit, only upsides” - and then proceeded to negotiate a Withdrawal Agreement that was only one step short of “no deal”. The current situation has satisfied no one - most British people now see the economic damage and loss of political influence it has brought, and the die-hard anti-Europeans now say it “failed because it wasn’t Brexity enough” and are pushing for further authoritarian and isolationist measures like withdrawing from the European Court of Human Rights (which is of course not an EU institution).
To be honest I don’t care very much if the EU is a bit bureaucratic and wasteful - all governments are, and the current UK government has proven itself to be corrupt, lazy and venal since 2016.
The overriding benefits of the EU, which eclipse all other considerations in my view, are that it has bound together the nations of Europe in a peaceful union with mutually beneficial economic and political links - the nations who fought two vast and bloody wars between themselves in the 20th century - and that it has enabled an unprecedented surge in European prosperity (as well as brought freedom of movement!).
The UK post Brexit by contrast has precious little to show for its decision to leave - an increasingly authoritarian and Trumplike government, a drop in GDP of 4%, increased inequality between rich and poor, and inadequate public services. The “great new trade deals” promised by the Brexiteers have all proved to be chimaeras - the US has recently said that it has “no interest” in a new trade deal with the UK, which was one of the pillars of the Leave campaign.
Anyway that’s enough from me and apologies for the digression, you get my point!!
Well, hasn’t this topic stirred up people’s emotions and views on how life should be lived in France when not born and bred here.
I have my own views and opinions on comments already made and I feel sure that how I live my life would not be how others choose to live theirs as in my case being a permanent guest in France.
France has accepted me without judgement of my language skills, social integration or where in the country I chose to live. France treats me the same as its nationals (with the exception of voting) and I ask no more than that as I expect no more from the country I have chosen to live.
Sometimes judgement of others that do not accord with your own life style are in my opinion best not said.
@SuePJ I still find it very very strange, as undoubtedly there would be all sorts of restrictions surfacing as a direct result of Brexit, as we’ve now all seen materialize in reality. I feel sorry for all those disadvantaged, especially younger generations who had their wings clipped by older generations. With any campaign, you need to understand the reality versus what is pedaled to comfort certain agendas. Brexit was a perfect example of promises not delivered, however you look at it. Yes the EU is not perfect, but it seems not being in it is far less perfect!
So I began this thread to communicate the latest on long term visa’s. Unfortunately, like too many other threads, it’s gone down the ‘brexit voters dont know what they were doing, I am still bitter about it, those who voted brexit are not comprehendable’ (i.e. idiots?) route.
The positive move made by the French should be applauded. Move on.
What did you expect, it is hardly thread drift, there would be no such issue of ‘Automatic Visa for second home owners’, your thread title, if it wasn’t for Brexit. There is no way any discussion could avoid that. But I too hope you don’t mute the thread, but then that is something I would never do, I can see a title I don’t like and ignore it anyway.
Totally agree Jane. Hopefully the long term visa route will allow managed and easily determined status of being a ‘visitor’ rather than a resident for those with second homes
Well think of Stanley Johnson. He now has a French passport and the whole Johnson family can apply for the same. But dual nationality is not allowed in my line of work.
And Jane consistently posts about Brits who are second home owners not being able to speak French.
Loathsome as Johnson senior is, he’s only done the same as many in Northern Ireland have done in claiming an Irish passport - he’s exercised a right that he had to citizenship of another country. He didn’t use wealth or privilege to do so (this time), his mother was French.
I’m not talking about people immigrating, when the basic SMIC seems to be a fair request. Or people who wish to come and work where I fully support it being easier.
But those who don’t want to get €99 visas but who seem to want to spend as much time as they like in their second homes. And surely anyone who has a second home can be considered wealthy?
Under 6 months ( either 90/180 x 2 or a VLS 6 months) there is no requirement to pay tax or social charges as you are not considered resident. But a “second home visa” could give people residency rights without contributing at all. Which I am against.
Can you explain how europeans can go to the UK for over 6 months of the year without the need to apply for a visa? It doesn’t seem to be allowed AFAIK.
Not on the basis of him having gained nationality unless he has more children in future born in France, only from the maternal ancestor.
Untrue. 2nd homeowners still pay both housing taxes, both of which will continue to go up in coming years.
Also a visa costs a lot more than 99 unless you live in London or Manchester - you have travel costs and quite possibly an overnight stay and of course if 2 people that and the visa idoubles the cost.
They do not benefit from the health service and would either have insurance or the UK government will refund the French state.
They spend money in the French economy.
So not sure why they are seen as a drain on the French taxpayer - quite the opposite.
You forgot the word “entitled”. Anyone who wants to enjoy France and doesn’t consider they should have special treatment above and beyond all other third country nationals is very welcome.
The depressing thing is that the UK is now a Third Country, when it shouldn’t have been like that. But it’s happened.
These are local taxes, as a result of benefiting from having a property. They’re not national taxes or social charges that contribute to the overall national budgets for health, education, infrastructure etc etc.
