ROFL and you Brian
And money
Jane - I think that your comments (as always!) are justified, and evidence-based. Introducing this balance to the discussion is essential, so thank you. But there are several other sides to the story. Broadly, these are present-day; and historic.
The importance of Brits to the economy of France cannot be so easily dismissed. According to Insee, following Brexit (the first time the French government actually was able to get any clear statistical measurements) there are 148,300 Brits resident in France (Spain has double this number), and a further non-resident group own 86,000 āsecond homesā. A third of the residents (55,000) are retired. Insee identify that the 93,000 workers live mainly in the cities - and the other 2/3 live in sparsely populated rural areas, concentrated in the Sud-Ouest. Anyone interested in reading up on the Insee report can see it here https://www.insee.fr/en/statistiques/4655494
My first home in France, 23 years ago, was in the SW, so Iām happy to be a typical retiree! After the war this riverside village had over 40 abandoned houses, the maire told me. The youngsters had migrated to Bordeaux, Limoges etc. Roofs had collapsed. There was no shop, only the baker was still trading. The first to see the opportunities this presented were the Dutch. They were closely followed by us Brits. We brought our money into France, renovated the houses, employed local skilled artisans, and returned life to the community. Parisians (and many others) followed. Today there is only one empty house left. The old families are delighted (up to a point) by the inflow of State money to tart the village up, and cash in on the post-war tourist boom. In the local town there are now 3 supermarkets, and a huge Brico. None of this would have existed if it had been left to the local French, I have to admit.
Looking more deeply into French history the truth is that the three biggest influences that have created the France that we all love have not originated from the French themselves (or more accurately, the diverse *Pays *that eventually came together as āFranceā, under a monarch). These have been, successively, the Gauls; the Romans; and the British.T he Gauls ruled the people for about 350 years; the Romans for another 600 or so; and the Brits moved in from 1230, ruled for over 300 years, and continued to claim a Right to the French crown up to 1802.
History lesson over!
I agree the British have had a significant historic role. But one canāt just look at this from a British perspective as Franceās geographic position and wider european history means that other nationalities have been equally important.
Letās think about Italy perhaps. Putting the importance of the Italian links to French Kings, and the Pope in a Catholic county, to one side, just consider the influence of the Lombard bankers in the 2nd century and the evolution of this. Or the arts and crafts from middle ages onwards.
Equally important economically in 1900ās were italien workers in construction and agriculture (letās not mention the Mafia of course). Which has led to some 7% of the French population having some Italien heritage, and current Italien nationals being three times more populous than the British.
So maybe more British in positions of power up to the 1600Ā“s but in terms of shaping the economic and cultural climate of France I think Italiens might win. I donāt see 24 hour fish&chip vending machines in car parks across the country, but there are a huge number of pizza machines and vans.
Oh dear Jane, for whatever reason you sound like you really hate the UK. Nowhere near perfect but not that bad.
Not sure how one could hate a country? But I do have a deep distaste for the government of the last 13 years, and some earlier oneās too.
Think youāre arguing from an uncharacteristically weak base. Certainly other cultures have been important in shaping France, but that was not the nub of the discussion. Also I think the history you cite is a tad shaky (Lombard bankers in the 2nd century? )
The central issue of the debate ( such as it is) remains about certain European second home owners whoāve generally made a positive contribution to French village life and who have lost certain EU citizensā rights through no fault of their own (Iām ignoring anecdotal āevidenceā of people having voted for Brexit as probably statistically irrelevant).
Also, these people canāt legally stay here for more than six months anyway without changing their tax regime. The current what aboutery from US citizens is irrelevant because they were never EU citizens
Trace memory and typing combined. Remember reading about them as part of tracing jewish history here. 12th not 2nd.
Avec les juifs et les cahorsins (marchands originaires de Cahors), les lombards furent actifs au Moyen Age dans la banque. Originaires de lāItalie du Nord (PiĆ©mont et Lombardie), dont ils tirent leur nom, leur arrivĆ©e en Suisse est Ć mettre en relation avec lāouverture des axes alpins au grand commerce international. Leur prĆ©sence est attestĆ©e Ć partir du milieu du XIIIe s., notamment Ć BĆ¢le (1253), GenĆØve (1267-1268), Berne (1269), Sion (1272), Schaffhouse (1278), Saint-Maurice (1285), Vevey (1287), Fribourg (1295) et Lucerne (1296).
And no, not the nub of the discussion. But put forward as part of the argument why Brits should have special treatment.
86,000 second homes spread (albeit very unequally) over 36,000 communes. A tiny number in comparison to the overall 3+ million second homes. The influence may be strong in a handful of places, but no means widespread.
And the French scattered around the UK allowed to stay 6 months?
Yes if they meet conditions and have no criminal record. Remember they took back control of the borders )
Indeed, so in these trying and troubled times it would be a nice thing if for once a helpful and positive step to re unite rather than segregate countries and people for friendship if nothing else.
Brits can stay in France 6 months, just in two blocks. French can stay in UK in just one block if they wish. Only difference.
However should French want to stay in UK longer the requirements are much tougher than Brits staying inFrance!
Swings and roundabouts.
Oh thats the same.
Apples and apples please, we are talking 6 months.
Totally missing the point, second home owners dont want to stay over 6 months.
I think @SuePJ has a very valid point here.
Linking vote Brexit and wanting to live outside the UK are not mutually exclusive.
Brexit to me was about reducing the European bureaucracy raining down without checks and balances, unfortunately, i certainly didnāt guess the utter shambles a corrupt UK Government could make of the situation. The UK should be more sustainable and more supportive of farmers, agriculture and UK industry and not buying Pork from Australia, Chicken from Thailand / USA - buy British is nearly impossible back in the UK. I think the French manage this much better, although this is decaying slowly.
Furthermore, I would not support the French giving out āvisasā for UK residents just because they own a house in France or any other Country, regardless if itās in a European Union Country. The concept of Richer families buying up property abroad just so they can have a holiday a few times a year is not a benefit to the local community in my opinion, even if they pay the taxes, the offset of higher property prices, etc. is not worth it. !!! !!!
Happy Christmas folks
They can already do as you state " holiday a few times a year" so thats your point down the toilet.
This is a different scenario and being around for longer would benefit the local communities so thats another point against your reasoning.
Merry Christmas to you.
I have to say thereās a strong whiff of people pulling up the drawbridge after successfully settling here, because the arguments against donāt hold water.
If France wants to give a benefit to her closest non-EU neighbour, then she has the right to do so. Itās rather better than the Truss approach to France.
The longer people can spend in France, the more money they bring to the local economy. Itās hardly an advantage that is going to create a buying frenzy that would skew house prices
In which case whatās the issueā¦that they canāt stay May to October? How many does that affect given that quite possible to be here every school holiday, so not a problem for families.
Well said that man