@KarenLot do you belong to a socio-economic group 
Or maybe an exception that proves the rule?
One UK TV programme I try not to miss is Frankie Boyle’s New Order - - always very funny - tonight on climate/ecological breakdown, with George Monbiot.
I was struck by his question ‘Why do people that want to soft-peddle on climate action always talk about China? - when most of China’s emissions come from making stuff for us? - it’s like criticising the carbon footprint of the guy that drives you to work!’
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I’ve just been catching up with this thread. What strikes me is that, when it comes down to it, most of us are singing from different pages of the same hymn book (not that religion has any place in this discussion, but it seems the most apt analogy). We all recognise that the Earth is in dire straits as a result of human activity.
Based on my own research - and articles like the one Geof linked earlier today - I think we’re closer to accelerated climate, ecological and social breakdowns than most people realise. Could we avoid that? Yes. Will we? No. And that’s realism, not pessimism. People far more influential and better qualified than any of us here have been urging action to protect our environment and the balance of nature for decades, and no one has been willing to listen.
I’m an optimist at heart, I truly am. But between the wasteful billionaires, the corrupt politicians, the self-serving leaders of industry and the countless masses who either don’t know or don’t care, it’s hard to believe that anything is going to change quickly or drastically enough to pull us back from the brink of disaster.
Yes, there are all those of us somewhere in the middle who do know and do care. We have smaller families, we waste as little as possible, we don’t buy stuff we don’t need, we wave our banners and we recycle our junk mail and yoghurt pots. But (a) there aren’t enough of us, and (b) we’ll still be arguing about who’s to blame and where we should be focusing our efforts while the last trees are cut, the last ice melts, the last oceans are poisoned and the last bee folds its wings.
PS: Believe it or not, reviewers have described my book as quite an uplifting read! 
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I’m a born optimist too. The fact is that those holding wealth and power in the status quo always resist change, however clear the need - but in the end progress is made despite them.
I have in mind things like the introduction of the UK NHS by the 1945 Labour government - a massive change, undertaken against entrenched interests and opposition, affecting millions of people across many generations. The equation here is that on the negative side this might not have been possible except in the shadow of the war, but once the change was made the benefits have been enormous. As @SuePJ said earlier in this thread
there are HUGE rewards (financial / quality of life / health) if we really invest in climate/ecology.
On the pessimism side, I don’t expect political and other leaders to do enough until things get pretty bad, and the clamour for change becomes irrestistible. At this stage life will no doubt be very difficult for many, and impossible for some. But ultimately the recalcitrant leaders will be replaced by those prepared to act, the necessary changes will be made, and future generations will enjoy the huge rewards.
The Earth is telling us ‘You can’t go on like this’ - and since we can’t, after the usual struggle we’ll change our lifestyles and economies to something that works.
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Of course it was also a Labour government that took Britain to war in Iraq, undertaken against entrenched opposition, which cost needless lives and continues to affect millions of people, or doesn’t that count?
I don’t dispute your comments of the NHS but 76 years after its formation it has now become the financial millstone of Britain, a money pit desperate for change. The French system isnt perfect but in this day and age its financing model is far superior.
No British politician of any persuasion dare risk thier self centred career to push forward a similar system.
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It’s also broken for similar reasons - bottomless pit and lack of staff, 80000 hospital beds have been lost since 2000 here and currently 20% can’t be used due to staffing shortages.
Yes the NHS is a big ship so tricky to turn it around. Not that I know much about its internal politics but from the outside it looks as if the tories are running it to frighten people into pseudo private care.
The growing money pit as it was called is being abused by some, just as with any system and NICE and senior staff are also on the payroll of some very large drug manufacturers and a lot of the information given to patience is 30y out of date (NHS diet sheet for 1 example)
The french system does seem to be a good one though, paying a small amount to see your GP prevents (hopefully) people not attending when they have booked appointments, lots of missed appointments in the NHS because no upfront charge IMO.
There is the point right there. You are aware that his parents owned not only their own home, but they provided a separate bedroom and a sizeable garage. That, in the real world, is already a huge amount of affluence and privilege. If you think otherwise, I suggest that you spend some time in India. Amongst the working class. They are the ones who work ythe cities and don’t even have a place to sleep. Never mind a room, simply a space. Germany was a just society under Helmuth Schmidt. It was called Sozialdemokratie. After that the social bit disappeared from capitalism. The vulnerable in society are once again vilified and marginalized.
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In my experience and view, over centralisation is one of the main causes of many of the issues that the NHS has.
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What is certain is that this issue will dominate the final days of Cop26…
Yep! Totally agree and this is usually influenced by the bean counters
Interesting one for those exercised about ‘no-platforming’ or ‘cancel culture’ - my friend and leading environmental campaigner Chris Taylor was invited to speak at the annual Army Leadership Conference - until the Top Brass and Tory politicians got to hear about it!
What are they afraid of?
It’s hard to see justification to give a leader of Extinction Rebellion a platform IF there are others equally able that do not have such a controvertial affiliation.
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You’ve met her then [Thunberg]? Got to know her, spent some time with her?
Because if you haven’t I’m not sure “I can’t stand her” survives scrutiny.
So, having guessed it is her message or its delivery that irks you - what is it that has you seeing red.
Do you deny there is a problem?
Do you think we shouldn’t bother doing anything?
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Also note the obvious inconsistency in these views of Greta Thunberg: she is at one and the same time so objectionable that KarenLot literally ‘can’t stand her’, but also - in the same post - an innocent victim of sinister behind-the-scenes manipulators!
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Isn’t the fact that honest and insightful environmentalists - that really understand the situation we’re in and what needs to be done about it - are denied a platform (again, with a few exceptions like George Monbiot) the very situation that demands ‘controversial’ action?
Do you think all ‘controversial’ views should be suppressed?
By the way, this is Monbiot’s latest Guardian article:
The Iraq war was a disgrace and a crime and those responsible should still be held accountable. This was down to a Labour government (yet one emulating the Tories).
But the Tory party were in no way against the Iraq war (they certainly were not the entrenched opposition). Maybe you were not referring to them?
But if what you mean is there is no ‘innately’ good party then I agree. However let’s face it some parties appear to be innately bad…
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I don’t know how ER (and Insulate Britain) are viewed in France, but they are seen as toxic by many here, and giving them a platform in an official way would appear to be taking sides instead of participating in discussion.
I think most of those that have been making a fuss about ‘no-platforming’ or ‘cancel culture’ (like Boris Johnson and Priti Patel) are seen as pretty toxic in France! But how is that relevant? Do you think every invitation to speak implies 'taking sides? If so, surely, no politician - especially those as ‘toxic’ as Tories - should ever be invited?