Cost Of Living in France

Introduce yourselves...
1

Hi everyone!


Well our house is on the market in England with a view to permanently moving down to our lovely home in Limousin as soon as everything is sold.


This might seem a strange question but I was hoping to get a feel for "typical living costs" to help us budget / work out how long our savings will last and at what stage I'll need to think about finding some small part - time job possibly (far easier said than done I know)!


Our house in France is paid for, we know how much our residential taxes are (do these change if we live there permanently as opposed to having a holiday home?).


The house has no central heating (something we will address at some stage - I stay close to the discussions regarding this on SFN), but we do have 2 wood burners.


Currently we have a low standing charge on our electricity with EDF, but I have read some horror stories of 3000 euros a year for electricity! We do have an electric water tank on a timer.


Our oven is gas (bottled).


The house is fully furnished and we will be bringing duplicate everything in terms of white goods with a view to storing them in the barn and replacing the items when the eventually fail..so I don't envisage costs in that department for a few years.


Our home is appx 20 mins from the nearest decent town (Bourganeuf / Gueret), so we recognise we will need to plan carefully to minimise journeys thus saving on fuel.


It is our intention to live frugally and simply - a far cry from our lives currently!


Sadly, the house doesn't have much land but I hope to rent a small piece of land locally at some stage so we can have a bash at growing veg etc but in the short to medium term we will be buying the bulk our food.


There are 2 of us plus 2 cats, and the humans are veggie..


We probably have enough books to last us a lifetime and I think the only real luxury will be access to t'interweb..and a TV.


Perhaps this a bit "finger in the air" and I'm sure there'll be plenty of people saying that we should have done this exercise first - but hey ho that's part of life's excitement!!


I'm sure that there are many contributors to this site who will have done similar exercises / are living similar lifestyles and I would love to hear some experiences.


We are exceptionally excited about the next chapter in our lives and can't wait to hand over our keys to the lucky people who buy our English home whenever that may be.


Thanks for taking the time to read this and I look forward to getting some feedback.



2

Thank you, I did not know that, thats a great help.

3

Hi,

To ensure that you have reasonable Internet access, with the exception of somewhere that already has Fibre Optical access, you need to be sure that your prospective home is within about 3 - 4Km of the so-called DSLAM, which is the device in the exchange or in a cabinet by the roadside that links you (by copper wires) to the Internet. ADSL lines are very sensitive to distance, so you will get a very fast service if you're 1Km from the DSLAM, but a significantly slower link should you be, say, 5Km from it. (The distances are actually the lengths of cable involved, rather than 'as the crow flies' distances, but the principle is the same.)

A good way of doing this is to check up on any existing line to the premises (or neighbours premises) by putting the phone no. concerned into the "Test ADSL & Fibre" box at www.ariase.com. After the first results, click on "Infos ADSL" and note the distances and "Affaiblissement" quoted. The lower the Affaiblissement, the better, and any values higher than 55 - 60dB are likely to mean that you won't get a very good connection. Even values in the region of 45 - 55dB can be problematic, but shouldn't be too bad. A value higher than 60dB means that you will probably have pretty iffy connections.

Trust this may be of some use to new arrivals, ....

4

I am planning to move to France in the next twelve months or so. My house will go "on the market" as soon once this is sold then, I will be house hunting in the Brittany or South West of France. I hope to live fairly reasonably as I am a singleton now. My only real needs are I must live in an area that has a good internet access, as I am a photographer/ illustrator. Having lived in the Paris area for ten years or so I am not blind to some of the downfalls that can happen but things change and living in the country will be different to living in a big city like Paris.

5

Tend to agree with you Jayne about useless but not with cost our vets bill has shot up with injurys not seen in the uk, grass seed and spider bites each cost us over 450€ we had a really good vet back in the midlands that made suggestions regards treatment and medication such as buy it fom the chemist as its a lot cheaper than she could sell the same item , not here the price of the same item from the same vet varies from week to week just pick a number when queried the shoulder shrug and i dont understand the question whats difficult about why was it 4€ last week but 6€this week, as we have 4 Old English Sheepdogs we have our own food brought in from the uk its far cheaper than buying here but the vet tells us its not suitable and we should use his at 95€ a 10kg bag as we use 15kg a week we would soon be out of money he has told all the local Brits the same even though most are using recognised brands obviously a salesman in an earlier life again with vets some specialise in domestic others farm animals we have to use a different vet for the goats though i must say their surgery skills are good our little Billy after his op was thrown on his back without a blink of an eye the plasters ripped off before he had time to react, the cut was very neat and small now 6 months later no evidence of surgery

6

It's not so much that Vets are especially expensive here, as I can't compare them with UK costs, but that someone on a tight budget might find that Vet's bills can hit a budget quite badly. Obligatory anti-rabies vaccinations don't help, either. Perhaps it's just that I've never found a satisfactory pet insurance policy here. The ones I've seen don't appear to cover you for much more than the annual total of your premiums, whereas I'd like one to cover the more expensive, but less likely, risks.

As for the qualities of particular vets, I'd guess they're about as mixed here as anywhere. We've certainly come across both good and bad, sometimes in the same group practice.

7

Its strange you should say the vets are expensive where you are. I find them very cheap compared to the UK but I find them pretty useless. Have seen at least 4 different vets and not really found one that I would say had any compassion and even skills for operating, judging by the cut they made when sterilising one of my dogs. But then even in UK there is a huge difference in the price you pay for vets say on the outskirts of London to the Midlands.

8

Sorry to add this so late, given how long the topic's been running, but it may still help some people in the future ...

As permanent residents, you are only likely to save money on your Taxe d'Habitation if your property is worth above the average. Take a look at your latest Avis d'Impot to see if there are any figures shown below the box marked Total des cotisations. There is normally something against Frais de gestion (Admin costs), but you will only save if there are entries against Prélèvement pour base élèvée and/or Prélèvement sur résidences secondaires.


As for normal living costs, it's my view that you'd save money, though not much, compared with the UK. We live on the Swiss border & pay relatively high prices for fruit & veg. and still think that UK prices are higher than here. If you pay UK prices for Puy lentils, you'll certainly save money! (Just joking - We own, and use, Rose Elliott's "Not Just a Load of Old Lentils".)

As for electricity, I believe that it's cheaper here than in the UK. On the normal Tarif Bleu Peak/Off-peak tariff, current prices are 13.91 & 9.64 centimes/KwH respectively, including taxes but excluding the fixed charge. (We opted for the Tempo tariff, where we pay very heavily on the 22 coldest days per year in return for quite cheap electricity for most of the rest of the year.) Clearly, your electricity bill will depend on how well insulated your property is, the way in which you heat it & the temperatures you want.

One area to be careful of is Vet's bills. I can't compare these with the UK, but I know that we do seem to spend at least €70 - €80 every time we go near the vet.

Phone & TV are about the same as the UK. With a Freesat box, there's no Sky subscription to pay, and Free, SFR & Orange all offer decent Internet services, including free phone calls to landlines in over 100 countries, for around €30 per month. (NB: This includes tax & line rental, but NOT an independent phone line, which costs about €16 monthly extra. Unless you pay the extra, your local number rings on the (normal) phone attached to your Internet box. If that box is dead, you have no phone service & have to call them on a mobile! All the same, not many people I know pay the extra for the independent line.

9

Just spoke to my mum...and mentioned this topic...she is 80 and I asked how she feels about shopping, now and then...she said she used to have to queue at every counter in Sainsburys...cheese, fish, meat, veg...she said it took forever and you had to be good at queuing in those days...then, because she was canny...she would go and buy other bits in other shops...so would then queue in the Home and Colonial then the bakers...then the tobacconist for her newspaper and our sweets....she said when the first supermarket came to Hendon....it transformed her life. Her telling comment was as a housewife most of your time was spent shopping and queuing.. she seemed to think her present life...where she pops over the road to the out of town supermarket and other shops...when she cant get down to town is perfect...as she said, when her iron broke the other day, Sainsburys not only provided her shopping, but the iron too...something she would have had to trek to the ironmongers for once!

10

Hi Carol, glad it wasn't thought off-topic, but I wonder if having the shops open 24 hours, which doesn't interest me one bit, doesn't provide some employment opportunities for those who otherwise might not have any?

I don't know, but if it is shift work, and I have done my share of that in my 'yoof' in factories and as a postman, I personally welcomed it as it used to pay better. If it is compulsory working of these hours, I would be surprised if the assorted Labour Laws would allow that would they?

I take on board the ecological argument, but most people are looking for work in my admittedly limited UK experience. Although I did note the workers protesting AGAINST their unions for stopping Sunday Trading in garden centres for example here in France.

Sometimes I think we have to acknowledge pragmatism, and balance that against Principles.

11

I plead ignorance of your area, as we are still only 8 months into this house, but have lived in France for about 18 years in all. We are very hilly round here, so lots of valley views etc. However we are told that it is much warmer than other parts of the Limousin, which is an asset for my old bones!

The whole region though is just dense with things to enjoy and do. In the eight months here, I and lady wife, usually walk at least 3-4 times a week for a couple of hours each time, and we only started repeating walks after the first six months! That i find amazing. Incidentally this is walking from the front door - not taking the car to go anywhere. Mindblowing!

Sister-in-law has just sold her flat in Paris and is now coming down to her new house in the next few weeks, so lots of new departures from her place as it is 15 minutes drive from us - and that is enough to open up new vistas.

Incidentally I applaud your approach to coming here, plus having a cash reserve, as you can get caught out a bit. One thing that we were advised of was in 2014 connecting to the mains sewage will be compulsory*. We had already planned to renew the Fosse Septique, and surprisingly the quote for the mains connection was less than half what we budgeted for.

*I believe this has a caveat on how far you are from a mains system, but don't know the details. Our connection was about 50 metres all up. Mind you it has completely chewed up the garden with the caterpillar tracked digger! So we are still thinking of the best way to recuperate (read 'cheapest!)

We chose the new heating system, although there was an existing oil-fired radiator one, so that really 'choice' not compulsion.

Sometimes choices still get thrust upon you though, and our decision has been 'if it adds to the house value' so be it - provided we have the money, which is becoming increasingly unlikely, but I don't foresee any further major exes. Fingers crossed.

12

I remember those things too! and no, not off topic. A lot of people unhappy with 24 hour shopping for a myriad of reasons; people shouldnt have to work unsocial hours; waste of energy keeping shops lit and heated; big business conquering all; death of the high street. Sorry...for me its life and an improvement on what was there prior. Lots of people have to work shifts and weekends...(most of my friends get one weekend in four off and have to do night duty as well) and they like to shop and have to shop for some items.

I like the shops open, and I expect the people who get jobs out of hours are happy too that they have a job, which they wouldnt have if the shops reduced opening hours. I like choice...I like to be able to give my money to good shops with excellent service and avoid shops that think customer service is unnecessary....if we all did that, a lot of places would smarten up their act and we would have even more choice.

Non of us would starve if the shops opened once a week...but we like to choose when we shop...so what? Where I live we have a recently made over high street that is teeming with people at the weekends and busy with footfall every day of the week (including Sundays when everything is open)...we have 1 major out of town shopping area and two smaller ones...all within 300 yards of the high street...they are also good and busy. What does kill the high street isnt out of town shopping per se...its the high cost of parking in town. Locally we are paying nearly £5 for 4 hours parking. In Reading I paid £9.50 last week for a 2.5 hour lunch meeting. If councils members decided for once to use a brain cell and want to regenerate the high street, starting with free parking would solve most of the problems. Not an issue really in France I know...something I love about France is the largely free parking!

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13

As we came from the same lifestyle as you, working all the time, one thing you may find, is how difficult it is to switch off.

My husband still has to work and is working 7 days a week, so no change in hours for him, but a less pressured lifestyle. For me, I have found not having a job and not being able to find a part time one due to age etc, has been the most difficult aspect here, mostly in the winter months. If I was younger and fitter then the farmers have often needed reliable help with the cows and repairing fencing.

You can get cabin fever. No matter how much you are involved with local activities they don't take up much of your time; especially in the winter.

If you have applied to Carrefour, then I guess you must be fluent in French? After several years here I wished I was. I thought I would find it so easy as I had always been good at languages, ha ha, how wrong I was. I have mostly French friends, social life is French but still I do not speak it fluently enough to work with the public. I had a silly idea before I arrived that it would be quick. I am sure I am not the only one to make that mistake.

14

I too remember the days before Supermarkets, and terrible they were as well - at least in Slough!

No parking, queues everywhere, no stocks - buy what they had or go without etc., How soon we forget and how some never knew and complain.

Downsides have been death of Town centres (doubt if anyone noticed the difference in Slough). Crucifying producers on price, plus the inevitable Nostalgia fantasies of 'better days' of shopping! Not for me they weren't.

Some downtown shopping areas I am sure survived and I always loved the small, diverse shops, bars and restaurants in Brussels, but if that were the only choice they too would turn into overcrowded hell-holes. Nature of the beast.

I also remember steam trains, dirty noisy smelly things they were too, late, too hot or too cold, crowded, packed with smokers and grimey seats. Ditto with cinemas. I remember the packet boats that crossed the Channel, guaranteed to make you throw up, 'knife-edge' banked seating either on the wet side or the windy one? Freezing to death all the way with nowhere to escape to.

I remember starting cars with starting handle and breaking wrists in the process, tyres that lasted two years if you were lucky, and six months if you bought the dreaded 'retreads'. I remember houses that had no heating other than a small banked up coke fire that also doubled as keeping the hot water going - for a couple of hours and one bath, half-full if you were lucky. I remember having to homework as soon as I got in from school before th shilling in the meter ran out, and how there never was another available. I remember rickets, polio, infantile paralysis and 'iron lungs', mumps and measels carrying off school chums. Curdled milk in little packets with straws that gave up after one suck of a young child.

Oh they were the 'good old days' weren't they? But we do have the wonderful gift of looking back at some imaginary time, which I suppose is just as well, as most of my childhood memories as an unwanted child born in 1940 to a single mother (divorced) remain total crap.

Now we talk about Surviving France? Miracle some of us survived full stop.

Just had a thought. That sounds just like that Monty Python sketch doesn't it? Plus totally off-topic, sorry!

15

Where in the Limousin will you eventually end up? We are also there, but hanging on by the skin of our teeth on the bottom edge - Puy d'Arnac, close to Beaulieu-sur-Dordogne.

16

It was actually exceptional. I normally have things in the fridge, freezer or have a neighbour get me things as we used to. Leave them in a bag by the front door, has always worked for me. Before 24/7 I never starved. I believe there are supposedly over 600 hypermarkets, as many or more regular supermarkets and then several thousand small shops open 24/7. It is not my formulated view but that of people working in that area an environmental issue forgotten about all too conveniently because of the big business interests who are deeply involved in public policy making.

17

In Newbury there seems to have been some discussion between the stores...Tesco is the only one to provide 24 hour hour despite the fact we have most of the big supermarkets. But as you said, you arrive late from a flight...at least in the UK you can buy some provisions....unlike other places where you arrive late on a plane....or have another Saints day Bank Holiday and have no where to shop.....

18

I wonder how we survived before they came about? I remember, does anybody else? Also, when we are trying to conserve power and reduce pollution, etc I seriously question how helpful several hundred hardly used hypermarkets are in this quest...

19

Came back from my mums last week (Eastbourne - Newbury...3 hours due to several lots of road works and closed lanes on motorway) so hit Newbury at around one a.m. and knew I needed milk for tea so did a quick shop whilst there. Its a superstore, one person on tills...but I use the self service anyway for a small shop....probably 20 people in the store...but frankly, I like to know I can buy milk when I need it...I appreciated the 24 hour shops in the US years ago..and like it here....I work shifts around the shop and will often shop between 8 and midnight and from 5.30 in the morning before a shift.

20

I have used a Tesco in the UK when arriving on a late flight and needing supplies on the way home. At two in the morning there are a couple of people on tills half asleep and almost nobody in the store. Does it actually pay to keep the lights alone burning for me to turn up to spend a couple of quid for some milk, bread and little else?