I’m looking to get any advice of people’s experience of purchasing and renovating a property in France.
We are looking at a property in Eygalieres that has the potential to increase the size of the property and renovate it. But I just wanted to get people’s opinions on the renovation process and dealing with builders in France. What are the main areas to be aware of and are there any strange quirks or nuances that we may fall into?
Any help would be greatly appreciated .
If you are looking for a profit, forget it.
Just what I was going to say! As for the rest, where do you start…?
I know, learn french (unless you already have😉)
Well my wife speaks French so that’s that boxed ticked.
Can you expand on the profit comment. Is this due to taxes, charges etc… or other reasons
Good builders will be busy, less good ones readily available. Don’t assume that because it is obvious to do a job in a particular way, that the job will be done that way - or even done right. Building work is at least twice as expensive as in the UK. Everything should be done by someone qualified and insured. Everything should be done to match FRENCH regulations, not UK regs.
We love France (maison secondaire) but it’s a VERY different country.
Building work is expensive and houses are cheap. The French don’t view a house as an investment to make a profit, but as a place to live, and prices don’t climb like in the UK.
We bought a doer-upper, just like we did with our present UK house. The French house cost us less to buy in 2022 than the UK house in 1990.
We bought a house that had been a second home in 2007. What was fine for occasional use wasn’t for us living here fulltime. We put in an ensuite bathroom, redid the electrics, redid the whole sanitation system, opened up the lounge floor which had rotted and laid a concrete base and put down a new wooden floor, insulated, installed a new kitchen, laid new kitchen tiles, alterered the configuration of a hallway to let through more light, installed another window in the kitchen for the same reason. Over the years we have double glazed. We have probably put something like 150,000 € into our property to bring it up to scratch. And we haven’t touched a huge loft and roof that probably needs redoing.
When I say “we”, I mean the work was done by local French artisans under the direction of a French project manager.
Eighteen years on, we’ve just had the house valued and it’s worth no more than what we paid for it in 2007.
There will be planning restrictions on what you can do and how much you can extend. Make sure you have a CU in writing before you buy the place if this is what you want to do.
If you use local artisans it’s a good way to integrate into the community so pays dividends down the road.
You will not be able to get some of the things that you might consider standard, and probably best not to try.
Make sure you plan carefully and can be worth getting in a maitre d’oeuvre if a big project. And if you don’t have fluent French. Our French is good but there were still some things lost in translation - although some of that was that the main maçon wanted to do what he wanted to do, so nodded and smiled and carried on as before. 59% of the time he was right so we learnt to live with it.
As said elsewhere, expect good artisans to be busy.
The whole planning process has become more strict and if the project is of any size you will probably need to use an architect to draw up plans and get you planning permission, which is granted by the local sub-prefecture. Make sure you get on well with your local mayor and get him/her on board. They do not have the final say, but will have an influence in the final decision.
Beware of using an architect as your project manager unless they come very well recommended. We lost a year with ours and in the end had to sack him and start with a local project manager who was very well regarded by the artisans. Bear in mind they don’t know you, have no idea whether or not you are trustworthy and will pay. But they will trust a project manager they know. Also, if possible stick with locals - much easier to get them to work for you so that they can go home for lunch (20 mins max). They will knock off at 6pm and probably take 2 hours for lunch but they are very hard workers during working hours.
Don’t be surprised if they disappear for several days when supposedly working for you. They will certainly be working on more than one project. Also, they may slow down if they are in danger of doing too much work in any given month and crossing a tax threshold.
We had a building and renovation business until OH died for almost 20years here. I still think it was the work that helped his decline as he just never stopped either for clients or on our house. One thing I will tell you is that how ever much you throw at a renovation, your will NEVER EVER recoup that investment, the system does not allow for it. Artisans have a different work ethic here, usually one per trade, fixed hours of 35 per week unless a lone sole entreprise but employees have to be cleared with URSSAF for anything over 35h and the boss pays for those hours in more charges. It is the NORM here for an artisan to have more than one job on the go at all times, you are taught that because otherwise if not enough money coming in, the charges do not stop so hence always having something on the boil. Building regs have tightened up over the past years, you cannot change the exterior appearance of any building without consent, buildings in sectors of Monuments Historiques are very tightly controlled on work and the artisan and his employees must now carry their registration cards plus be insured to work as well as giving the obligatory Deçenelle 10 year insurance. If you engage on non registered artisan and he has an accident, you are liable! All works must have an official contract signed by both parties and ahered too, any problems must be notified in wiriting and sent by LRAR to either party. Even now I still get emails from very satisfied clients who have kept in touch which is lovely. One other warning, never pay up front without an official demand for a tranche payment or for specialist fittments and make sure your artisan has a current SIRET number, is registered for TVA and has the relevent insurance all to bemarked on t he paperwork
This is all really useful, thanks so much for everyone’s input. It’s really appreciated.
All proper work will be fully priced in advance & set out in a ‘devis’ which both parties sign. Unlike the UK this creates a binding contract & the price cannot vary unless there are specific conditions set out in the devis.
This all means that although the initial prices quoted my seem high you can’t have a trades person coming back to you for more money just because the job has taken them longer or they’d under estimated the materials required - that is their problem, not yours.
Clearly, any changes that are made during the process must be agreed by both parties & be subject to a supplementary devis.
A devis can stipulate dates for commencement &/or completion of works. Although that sounds like a good idea for the client it’s quite often off-putting for an artisan. All trades can be effected by bad weather, even if their trade is indoors; if the structure is incomplete due to a weather problem then you can’t do wiring, plumbing, or put up plasterboard.
Bear in mind that the French do not volunteer information / suggestions so if it’s not in the devis they are unlikely to say part way through a job “have you thought of so-and-so?”. In fact if you are a foreigner they are even less likely to say that as they will assume you are mad and really do want it that way. We finished up with:
Interesting - I insist on two towel rails along with two basins in a bathroom. Or better, if size permits two ensuites with a single basin and rail per bedroom… 
Ooooh NO! Horrible thought - sharing a bathroom with someone else. Two bathrooms, one each, yes. I so do NOT want to watch my beloved flossing his teeth, gargling and spitting, farting, and generally behaving as one does. And I’m sure he does not want to see me taking out my false teeth and cleaning them! 
Yep, to the OP, I would listen to Shiba. And as others advise, change your mindset - you are having a home built, not a jobbie where you can boast in a dinner party how much you ‘have made’ (gawd, how nice it is not to have this topic of conversation any more!!) - Again as others said - use the most reputable builder that you can afford and insist the electrics and plumbing is to regulation (please do not use inferior uk wiring and or uk pipe sizes as it is unfair on the next owner.
I am best of friends with the builder and all his crew that are still with him after ten years…
Us too, we even put up a stone plaque with their names and date.
Plus now if you wish or do have to sell up, the compulsory diagnostic report will not be favourable if installations are not to the french regulations and normes. If you cannot find a suitable artisan, the local mairie are usually forthcoming and furthermore if you use locals, they are not likely to *hit on their own doorsteps regarding reputation.
Regulations and normes move on so installations will always go out of date, my wiring was good when I updated it but as Badger posts regularly its not any more so would fail the latest spec.
That’s sort of true, but the electrical diagnostics do not follow the normes to the letter, far from it…
They report safety concerns (e.g. unearthed sockets) but don’t comment on the number of sockets on a circuit.
I’ve seen reports that don’t mention the complete lack of double pole isolation on any outgoing circuit.
They make no mention of comms wiring of any kind.
In other words, an electrical diagnostic report with no issues flagged up does not mean an installation is ‘aux normes’, nor does it mean it would pass inspection by CONSUEL.