Hi all.
This is a long post sorry
Background: My partner and I bought our little house last year. We knew both taxes would be due about now but quite shocked at the Tax Fonciere amount (not received Tax d’habitation yet). Even our neighbours and friends in the village were surprised and gave examples of bigger houses with much lower TF.
The problem is that my house was created along with another smaller house by the previous owner who bought derelict buildings and created two homes so there is no history of tax on either property to compare increases.
To make matters even more complicated my (French) neighbour who purchased the other house has only just realised she has not received any demand for tax and her property was not in the IMPOTS system so failed to receive a declaration request too. (it is her 2nd home so she’s due for both)
Knowing this I contacted IMPOTS and asked if its possible that I’ve been taxed on the old Cadestres ( there’s at least 7 cadestre numbers that make up the 2 new properties)
They replied saying I’ve been charged for Cadestre number 399 which is 80m sq which along with a couple of smaller plots does indeed constitute my property sale.
My sale documents state the purchase is for 00h 01a 15ca = 115m sq.
I understand that certain parts of the property are not included so 35m sq difference might make sense.
However I started to measure my dwelling and I am not sure its even 80m sq anyway but I dont really know what the tax authorities include for assessment.
To top it off I’ve took a long look at the cadestre plans and I dont think my 399 on the Gov website matches up with the boundary of what I’ve purchased meaning the stated area is not correct.
I am only in France periodically and my language is not technically proficient to meet with the local tax office.
My fear is that I’ll be pushed from tax office to cadestre offices and even back to the Geometre expert who measured and divided the plots.
I see a Kafkaesque nightmare ahead of me.
So… does anyone have any experience of appealing and/or even finding out if the measurements are correct.
PS. my neighbour has confirmed that IMPOTS will now be sending her a tax fonciere bill so I guess I can rule out being charged for her house too.
You need to go and see the Impôts people in person and take your case to them for investigation. You can get upto date maps of the property ‘cadastre’ to compare what they have on record and what actually exists. No good asking on a forum like this, most of us have submitted our property details online this year and any problems, most will enquire with their local Impôts office. I myself need to phone them tomorrow and talk about what they actually have for me as they stated garage, but I don’t have one and as this is the first year for Foncières on this new build, they need to correct some things they may have taken off the original plans submitted by the developers. Go and speak to them in person is my recommendation, it has always worked in the past when I had queries from our business TVA to getting exonerrated on things.
Thanks for your comments.
As I said I’m not in France very often. I doubt I’ll be back before end of Jan. Yes I will make an appointment when I have confirmed dates.
I was really wondering if there is a published formula to calculate the tax on the property?
I understand its linked to rentable value but I’ve searched for a formula and cant find anything tangible
We only have 2 small bedrooms and there’s no heating except for an ineffective inset wood stove.
I doubt anyone would rent it in the winter as its freezing.
anyway was just hoping there may be some people knowledgeable on the matter here.
You need to ask to get form H1 (or download it) and next time in France follow the instructions about how you measure your house. And assess quality issues. Then resubmit this form.
Rentable value is not related to the rent you or I would pay! You also need to be aware that some communes have significantly increased property taxes recently.
But pay little attention to what your neighbours say as there could be quite justifiable reasons for the difference (or their houses were badly assessed 75 years ago).
From experience, the initial response to just about any query on property taxes is Complete and submit a new H1.
So you might as well do that to start with.
Just getting advice about form H1 is helpful and a step forward so I knew it would be worth the post.
Stella - Yes I have arranged the direct debit whcih I think comes out tomorrow so bill will be paid in full
I think you’re right about the previous owner. My neighbour said that although the works to divide the properties and build the two houses was started (and likely completed) some time ago he only declared the works completed just prior to marketing in late 2022. It may have been exploiting a loophole to avoid taxes or a genuine oversight as he was going through some personal problems. From what I can gather he’s never paid taxes on either houses. I have certificates for electrics, sewers and all of the surveys and the house is nicely finished. I’m in the building industry so know what I’m looking at but his admin left a bit of a gap.
I also have the paperwork from the Geometre expert who measured and divided the cadestres.
I do think there is an error now I’ve looked more closely and will make contact and see if they will engage in some dialogue.
Do I obtain form H1 on the IMPOTS site or need to obtain from a tax office please?
Sometimes they simply update their records with the new info without question and make retrospective adjustments.
Sometimes they may need to look into it more closely.
Thank you for the link.
Do you think its worth me asking:
If they hold a form H1 submitted by previous owner? If yes do you think they would let me see the content?
I completed my declaration but I had no input into the detail that is on the H1 form. The 80m sq that is quoted in my property details in IMPOTS was not given by me and I dont know what the area includes or excludes.
I did fill out how many bedrooms, bathrooms etc. I think I made a mistake on terrace space too because we have a small garden and I thought that was also regarded as a terrace. We have a small terrace in the roofspace 9m sq
The form refers to heating methods which I was never asked about in the declaration as far as I can recall either
The main aim of this new déclaration des biens was to sift out people who should be paying taxe d’hab, and provide an opportunity to declare major things like swimmings pools. I’m not sure how detailed the data entry was. There is a ´quality’ element to the declaration which is where things like heating are taken into account.
Ours was a bit wrong and it became obvious that the base data was not totally accurate. The exact details of what we declared when we got planning permission to renovate the derelict part of the house are correct. But no changes were made to the main house, which is a couple of m2 out.
Hi Stella
That’s useful to know.
I didn’t think the Mairie would want to get involved in these kinds of matters but I’ve always found the reception staff very helpful on other issues, so yes I’ll give it a go. Thank you.
Ah ok so tht could explain why there appears to be a discrepency.
I’m happy to spend the time on going theorugh the process of ensureing all info is accurate so at worst I’ll know what i’m being charged is correct.
Tbh I suspect they will not engage with you until they have the form. That is what seems to trigger their engagement with the issue.
I guess they are cautious of saying anything before the have the full facts in front of them, because there are so many different factors at play in the calculation. Basically to them it is purely a mathematical calculation, albeit a complex one. They are not interested in whys and what ifs, they just want accurate data so that they can arrive at an accurate figure. It is a classic case of garbage in, garbage out.
Yes understand Sandcastle
Do you know if I can submit the completed H1 via the IMPOTS messaging service or do I need to make an appointment at my local office?
