In a pickle... can't find work

Employed & Self Employed
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Hi all,

Little update for those who followed my previous post on DIY works before house stuff.

The diagnostic was not as disastrous as we had feared, some anomolies such as some plugs having earth pins but not cables, but its written in the diagnostic that the risk is mitigated by the disjunctors in the consumer unit. There were some other bits but overall, it could have been worse.

However, they did identify a possible asbestos pipe in the understairs cupboard, accessed from outside the house, that wasn’t identified on the diagnostic when we purchased.

Anyway, agents mandated, photos and virtual visits done and property on the market. Phew, that was an effort in itself!

But the agents are saying that the market has seriously slowed, despite the lack of supply, due to the war and cost of living crisis…

And our more immediate worry is that my chomage allocations, which are our joint main source of income, along with our gites, will run out in September.

So the clock is ticking, less than 5 nonths to go…I need to prolong those allocations so as not to risk losing the house before we call sell it…and I can’t find anything, at all.

My health is not good enough to restart the 4 or 6 hour round trip back into Paris like I did before and I’m genuinely shocked by the total lack of opportunities in a 50km radius of where we live.

I’m willing to do just about anything but all the supermarkets are not recruiting or only taking on students, there is little call for CDD or interim office based jobs and despite being bilingual and having 23 years of experience in various fields, office and shop based, I find myself unable to get a sniff of a job.

I know its tough out there but are other people experiencing this sort of thing?

We were thinking about relocating to the Poitou-Charentes or Vendee areas but I’m now deeply concerned that it will be the same or even worse to try to find work there.

We’re planning to set up gites again but will need additional income to cover the cost of food, energy bills, petrol etc. The cost of living! Every trip to the supermarket just about makes us cry, even when we’re being so careful and only buying eco products, a trolley full costs the best part of 200€ every week. And we’ll need a small mortgage to top up the money left over from this house.

So… any thoughts about our plans for relocation? Does anyone have gites in this area or know how the demand is? I’ve heard it is more seasonal than here, where we are used to filling up with workers and others in all seasons, leading to up to 80% annual occupancy. And what about other employment?

I just don’t know where to start digging ourselves out of this pickle. Our dream life here has turned into a nightmare over the last couple of years and now I can’t think clearly about how to turn it around.

Grateful, as always, for any insights, information, ideas or just support from you lovely people out there!

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Where are you now?

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Hi, I live in Trie-Chateau (60) near Gisors at the limit of the 27. So I have train or car access to larger towns such as Cergy-Pontoise, for example.

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I am so sorry to read about your predicament.
Something that occurred to me is, you say you will need a small mortgage. In order to secure a mortgage with a bank they will want to see regular secure source of income at the time of application. Perhaps this is what to focus on? If the income is from employment, then logically the property you want to purchase would need to be within travelling distance of the job, because if the bank can see that the move will mean giving up the job, it may not regard it as a secure income. I am sorry I cannot offer any real advice but I think you need to put your priorities in order carefully and take it one step at a time and walk before you can run. I appreciate that you have ambition for a long term that includes gites and you are impatient to get there, but it is difficult to see how you can leap straight from having to struggle to cover the cost of living, to obtaining a mortgage - relocating - investing in a new business, because those things require a lot of money and where is it going to come from? Perhaps you need to take a couple of years to shore up your financial situation and build up some savings. Sell the house; find a job wherever you can, since you will no longer be restricted in location; rent somewhere close to the job so that you will have minimal travel expenses; and take the time to do some careful research into the gite market in various parts of France.
I am sorry if that is not what you wanted to hear but you asked for insights and that is my insight from what you have said.

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I think it must really depend what you are looking for, and what salary. Round here just about every business has signs up saying that they have jobs available. Of course being France you need to have the right piece of paper, but there seems to be a desperate need for aide soignants for example. Or since you are bilingual what about tourism? Summer jobs are recruiting here now, our tourist office has taken on nine people I believe. International companies who need bilingual receptionists? Presumably you have done a french style CV and plastered it everywhere?

As for gîtes, you know the profitability! To buy an established complex with enough units to give you a good income is expensive, and to buy something that needs renovation may get you into same problem you are now?

So maybe need to think more widely? I don’t know whether there are training grants available to help you develop a different career in the longer term?.

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Thanks, its definitely food for thought.

I have made an appointment with Credissimo in our local town who specialise in securing loans and mortgages for people in unusual circumstances. I explained our situation in detail over the phone and he didn’t seem too phased by the challenge but a face to face meeting will undoubtedly reveal more.

Clearly, the track record success of our existing gite business along with the probability that we will be able to provide an ‘apport’ in cash for over two thirds of the price of a property that will not require any / much work in our target area will be the positive points. We definitely will not be taking on a huge project again (been there, done that for the last 10 years!). We can potentially take all our furniture and equipment from here unless a purchaser wishes to negotiate to buy that too.

However, unless we take over an existing business, we will need information on likely cash flow patterns in that locality and that’s where the difficulty lies. Maybe tourist offices would be a source of information about demand, be it seasonal or year round? That’s something more easily done at a distance, just got to get phone bashing…

I’m a little concerned that if we rent for too long, any job income would only cover living expenses and not provide for additional savings, whereas we may end up eating into the profits we’ll make from selling this place. My OH still struggles with his French and has found it almost impossible to work in France, apart from in businesses that we have set up for ourselves (hence the gites). So we’re essentially a single income family if he doesn’t have that alternative source …

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Hi Jane,

I have indeed plastered my French CV about on all the online sites and with Pole Emploi and the various interim agencies locally and further away. I’ve been targeting the best options with personalised courriers de motivation as well. It takes time but is expected…

I’m really not being restrictive, I’m willing to do just about anything that I am physically and mentally able to as I just need to work as much as possible in the next 6 months or so.

The desperate need for aide soignants is nationwide and typically characterised by terrible working conditions which is putting people off. They generally require you to have qualifications too. My neighbou r does it and is desperately trying to get out, along with all her colleagues. You have to be incredibly physically fit which is unfortunately not currently my case :slight_smile:

Tourism is woefully under represented in the jobs market here which is crazy as we are surrounded by some good sites. But I’ve done a good look and there’s nothing about. My other problem is that if I have to work every weekend, Saturday and usually Sunday all through the summer, that leaves my OH trying to run and clean the gites alone every weekend with our 4 year old in tow (its practically impossible!)

If he’s sick or injured or has a medical emergency for the little one with clients on the way and I’m not available to step in, we’re totally screwed as far as the gites are concerned, and we desperately need the security of that income right now

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Just reading your response and the subject of borrowing, it did remind me of a family friend very many years ago who was very eager to buy another property to rent, then resell to make a quick profit. The bank was very eager to lend him the money and was almost bending over backwards to do so. He went ahead, had problems renting the property, interest rates rose, he had difficulty maintaining the additional finance and the very eager bank then showed it’s teeth and showed no mercy. He ended up losing pretty much everything he had by the time the whole matter was settled. Certainly stuck in my mind from a relatively early age, and since then I’ve personally been extremely wary of lenders. More recently here in France I know of someone else who ended up getting into quite some difficulty with a bank who very suddenly turned quite ruthless after her husband had difficulty keeping up the mortgage payments. Certainly not wishing to put you off, but just don’t be drawn in by a lenders enthusiasm to lend you the money. Ultimately, it’s you that has to pay the money back, and it’s you who has that responsibility and the ability and privilege to decide. Lenders are never shy in taking advantage of certain misfortune when it presents itself. And with interest rates rising, we will undoubtedly see echoes of times past very unfortunately. Great to be ambitious, but certainly at times like these, very good to balance with some caution. Good luck with whatever you choose to do, and everything crossed that you can find something suitable on the work front :crossed_fingers:

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I am repeating myself here because it is a point I made to a different poster fairly recently who was worrying about running out of money and was asking where he could get a loan. It is my view that borrowing when money is tight is rarely the best solution. If you are perceived as a sub prime risk you are unlikely to be offered competitive rates of interest and the last thing you need is the worry of having to meet high repayments out of a tight budget unless you are 110% sure that it will only be for a very short period of time.

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Good point, I guess I’m still stuck in the mindset of rent being ‘dead money’ whereas ultimately owning your own property outright is always the final goal and the longer you make payments, the closer you get to that. When I see how much we’ve paid off and equity created in the last 10 years here, compared to the same time period on a UK mortgage, its really impressive!

I’ve only rented properties for short periods since I bought my first house at 21.

Presumably though, I will face similar resistance from reluctant landlords unless I have a solid job contract signed first? Or will a big lump of cash in the bank as a guarantee do the trick?

Aren’t minimum 3 year lease terms still pretty much the norm? I don’t know how easy or hard it will be to find a short term or flexible let in case we find a suitable property to buy and need to get out?

Anyone know what current norms or terms are or can point me to a source of information please?

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Landlords are often more stringent than anyone else!! The law in France is on the tenant’s side and landlords know this so are very, very cautious.

The shortest contract is a 1 year meublé renewable, which you need to give I recall one month’ notice. Then there is the 3 year unfurnished, also renewable. And you have to give 3 months’ notice. But don’t tell any prospective landlord you may only want it for a shorter term as it costs a landlord to find a new tenant!

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You’ve confirmed what I thought, Jane. Renting may be required and / or possible, depending on how the scenario pans out, but not necessarily easier…

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But in the scenario where you find a permanent job first, and look for somewhere to rent close to work, then you would already have the CDI which is pretty much the gold standard for many landlords and/or their insurance companies.
Once the house is sold, the way interest rates are going you may even be able to invest it for a couple of years at a good return.

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Apart from inflation rates not coming down that much

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Have you considered a home-based job for a UK company which just requires a computer and phone?

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Any UK company employing people to work while they are physically in France needs to register and pay employer’s contributions. Or the person needs to set up as an AE for this type or work and has to have more than one client or it is travail dissimulée. Or a portage company.

Sounds a good idea, but many complexities to achieve it.

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Yes, I rather suspected that would be the case… and most of the opportunities at first glance look more like ‘get rich quick (not)’ scams which waste a lot of time and don’t earn much money, rather than actual proper jobs

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Please correct me if l have misunderstood your situation but it seens to me that possibly because of reasons beyond your control (covid?) Your gite or similar business has not performed as you hoped?

You talk of buying another gite based business when you have sold your current holding but you really need to stop looking for that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow as running gites and many other businesses might look like get rich quick schemes but turn out not to be.
What was you life experience/work before you came to France and invested in what seems to have failed?
I am sorry that the world seems to be against you just now but to try and borrow (mortgage) to get out of the frying pan and into the fire is a really bad idea.
I know you are seeking encouragement here and I feel that is what I am giving and I also know that reality is a bitter pill to swallow.

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Hello, yes, sorry, I thought I’d been clear in my previous posts, our gites have been a great success since we opened the first one in 2014 and have provided an excellent 2nd source of income and occupied my OH for the last few years. They make roughly double the average monthly salary for one person around here. And since we have 3*, we pay minimal tax and cotisations.

The gites have been very Covid resistant. However I did set up a Brocante / dépôt vente business in 2020 when I couldn’t find work in Corporate real estate in Paris due to the sanitary situation and my desire to stop doing the long commute to improve my health. Unfortunately, small businesses around here have suffered badly in the last year and we closed in early February. Hence why I am now looking for a new opportunity.

I dont look at gites as get rich quick schemes but long term real estate investments that, if properly run, provide good regular income at the same time. They have enabled us to add significant value to this property which we are now, hopefully going to be able to extract and use to build our new life upon.

However, on a simplified basis i.e. one mortgage only. We bought our properties here in 2 separate times and therefore have 2 mortgages, 2 lots of tax, a small remaining loan for works etc. Which can all be paid off and still leave enough money to buy a decent property elsewhere, if we’re careful and plan well, which is what I’m trying to start now, based on solid information.

I worked in Corporate real estate and Architecture for 20 years across the world, based in London then Paris, before being made redundant for the 2nd time in 2020. I really couldn’t stand it and after 2 decades of working all the hours god sends, giving blood sweat and tears for large companies, you get thrown away like rubbish when they decide they no longer need you. Now I have a young child, I want to see her grow up. I missed a lot of her young life leaving home before she woke up and coming back when she was in bed, not seeing her for days at a time.

I couldn’t physically go back to the 4-6 hour daily commute into Paris either (5 damaged disks and spinal arthritis) which was quickly killing me and have now lost trust in slogging my guts out for companies that just use you.

All in all, better work life balance, ensuring better health for us of us and at least some quality family time have to factor into our future. I’m looking for a job, not an early grave!

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Hi all,

Quick update, the good news is that I got a call out of the blue from Adecco in Beauvais with an opportunity for me the day before yesterday. I said that I could go for interview any time, was called in for this afternoon and got the job upon walking out!

The salary is much less than I’m used to but Pole emploi will top it up for 8 months or so and there are real possibilities for evolution within a small company, quite in need of help.

The other working conditions are good and overall, I’m really pleased!

We’ll maybe look at downsizing within a reasonable radius of this new position but we’ll decide that when we come to it (i.e. if things advance on our house)…

Bon fin de journée everyone!

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