We live near Bergerac and used a local supplier who advertises that he both supplies and installs woodburners sourced in the UK. We have since had our chimney swept, and the French ramonage has condemned the installation, which has nullified our insurance.
Our installer has refused to admit liability and has issued threats.
The question is, should we progress through the French courts or the British as the “installer” is British, but trading in France? I'm sure the answer is the former, but just want to be clear.
The threats are now in the hands of the Gendarmes, so I am only seeking advice re the correct course of legal action.
We have since checked his siret no, and he’s registered for “live performance arts”.. clown or what? Also registered for "building works"!
This topic ran for a while on AI, as I didn't know about this forum, but got deleted (surprise surprise!), and thus all information offered has now disappeared.
Many thanks
Early stages I understand Vic, they're gathering case studies at present, but looking promising!!
Karen/Mark Don't forget to let us know when the program will air.
I don't think I would be convinced of any such letter, I would require visual proof or confirmation from people I know before signing any devis etc
The 'daily rate' excuse must have made you suspicious at least ! Never agree to any work from any artisan without a signed devis !
As you intimate however, there are no cast iron guarantees that any artisan is 100% competant.
Even that isn’t always a guarantee of competence I contacted a cabinet maker/carpenter of 25 years experience or so his advert said to fit our kitchen, he brought a portfolio of his work and a letter of commendation from a satisfied customer all very impressive, first mistake was agreeing to his day rate after being told it would take 3 days, by the fifth day it was obvious he was dragging the job out for all it was worth playing with the plumbing, a job that I had specifically asked him not to do and to keep to the woodwork side as I had not got the tools to cut the worktop correctly, he was then asked to finish the job as there wasn’t anymore money coming his way however long it took which he did do, the job wasn’t up to the standard of a second year apprentice in my opinion and to prove his incompetence and my suspicions correct it all fell apart within 12 months doors dropped off panels split, cut a long story short after every excuse in the book including wife having a baby then wife going back to the uk ,the jewel in the crown was his landlord had thrown him out of his workshop, he did eventually come back after I contacted the English paper when a half page write up was seen supposedly from a very satisfied customer, this customer actually commented on the wonderful workshop the joiner had, i was unable to trace this mythical customer despite having the name and town he lived in, the English paper actually admitted that the letter wasn’t from a customer but the joiner had written it himself, I suggested that as the letter appeared to be fictional wasn’t that fraud and could I write a letter laying down my experiences which they refused to print I have since taken out the kitchen units and refitted properly with the frame and doors at 90 degs not 80 and door catches that now work
".....it is very difficult if you don't have French qualifications"
the answer then must be to obtain the french qualifications so you are on more of an equal footing with the french
back in the 80s my UK HVG licence wasn't acceptable to the french authorities so I sat the written exams and passed the gruelling french HGV test in order to help me find work, it wasn't easy what with the language etc but such a trivail obstacle didn't put me off
checking out small traders or whoever for a SIRET number etc is no guarantee of competance - always try to work on recommendations from friends or neighbours etcAny reputable artisan will offer to show you examples of his or her work to help convince you.
Tracey, you will note that I said 'IN France' without being specific as to Nationality. As Brian so correctly points out being crooked or more probably simply incompetent, is not a Nationality thing. I have had French criticising French, French criticising Brits and vice-versa, we know of others who have used Polish and Portuguese who do the same thing.
It may of course be totally valid, and I am SURE your husband has NEVER criticised a former person's work? No I'm not, as I think it goes with the territory in many ways.
Brian, I'm afraid very few of these organisations seem to stand up to economic scrutiny, which is a massive tragedy.
Can't speak about the UN, but I once had a VERY long and outstanding bill to be paid from a certain organisation in Paris, who above all others should have applied fair rules of economics! I don't really think I have to spell it out do I?
Just one more reason why I sought out and enjoyed working with smaller businesses where I knew directly who I was dealing with and not some faceless organisation.
..............And his name is? Not that I would condone any kind of violence either!!!
We have just had a second woodburner installed and purchased from Bricomarche. You are right Norman, they charged 40 Euros to visit and survey the chimney etc, and then knocked it off the bill at the end. They are Qualibois certified, and were almost affronted when we asked to see the relevant proof, but understood when we explained what had happened to us with our first woodburner. We also asked for a devis for our first woodburner to make it safe, and it's a further 1500 E on top of the first installation (1300 E), on top of inbetween repairs (approx 900 E). We could have bought a Rolls Royce!!
All right, non-French artisans. Just trying to highlight that just because prof liberals don't have to provide qualifications as AE, artisans do and it is very difficult if you don't have French qualifications.
Personally, I check out all small traders to make sure they are legal, under all circumstances, I know too many foreigners who think the laws don't apply to them.
Not knocking Brits Tracy, merely all of the twisters out there who are also French, Dutch, Italian and who knows what.
If you are registered as an artisan, like Mark says,. you have to jump through hoops to provide the correct qualifications. I was prof liberal and merely I had to declare experience, my husband as an artisan carpenter had to provide his City & Guilds papers and obtain an equivalence issued by the Chambre de Metiers. Actually obtaining the decennal was harder as he had to provide the qualfications and attestations from former employers that he was able to do the job. so, don't start knocking all Brit artisans again!
Check the SIRET somewhere like InfoGreffe for free, remembering that the APE code is the Activity Primarily Exercised ie not the only activity. Then ask for a copy of the insurance which will list the trades covered. For example my husband is a carpenter (menuisier) so covered for all joinery, plasterboarding and tiling (and a few other related trades) but not covered for going on a roof as in France this is a separate trade - charpentier. He could do it but it raises the amount paid for insurance and is not worth it for him. SO beware general builders as if they are properly insured they will be paying a phenomenal amount in insurance.
No, they are not required! I am down as a researcher under liberal professions. Right, I have a high level of qualifications but I was not asked anything. My OH the same. However, she is working in something other than her AE registration at present (no negative effects possible in this case though), which goes to how how you can hypothetically register as a circus clown and then really work as a brain surgeon. It allows almost the worst 'criminal' deceit so that this installer, people doing satellite TV installations, roofing, electricals and who knows how many other things are at it. It is tailor made for cowboys.
Vincent, where did you get the idea that no qualifications are asked for in order to register as an auto entrepeneur?? When I applied to be a garagiste I had to jump through hoops before I was vetted & accepted. I think the same requirement to prove one's qualifications would apply to many artisans. Imagine, I could apply to the AE scheme to operate as a brain surgeon! I do know that some people register as non skilled, such as demolition, but work as builders. As very few people actually bother to check the siret number of those they employ it is no wonder that the cowboys flourish. That & a certain unwillingness to "dob them in".
I sympathize with you as regards AI. They have a habit of removing anything that reflects on brit services. Friends of mine continually complain about it. The problem with the auto entrepreneur system is that no qualifications are asked for, as is the case for the other levels of business. People should insist on seeing a proper city and guilds in the case of brit or even Irish people who pass themselves off as qualified. The French people who use the AE system tend to have proper papers.
Legal action should be in France if you paid to a business based here. The simplest course is 'small claims court", however in your case there is a problem of "professional standards" and I'm not sure if the small claims can cope with that, as it involves the court appointing a "sworn court registered expert" (the court appoints them, not the applicant). The problem of brit tradesmen using threats is becoming quite a problem. A friend of mine had a chimney put in and it turned out the brit artisan, and I used term loosely, was formerly in IT. You can Google the small claims and an EU site pops up. It is the same procedure in all EU countries. Max claim is €2000. The service is free. As far as I know, there is a "law centre" in Périgueux and they should help to decide.
As to the comment about builders knocking the work of others, it is universal and not confined to France. We at the program get floods of complaints about crap work by brit so called artisans.
regards, Vincent Flannery, Culture Gap programme, radio liberté, Riberac 24
Spot on Norman. But then consider the fact that in my case it was UN agencies and big charities who we often see putting up appeals for URGENT donations for dealing with an emergency that happened the day before. My mind always boggles wondering how people afflicted by floods, earthquakes, tsunamis and so on can survive the 90 days?
Usually accompanied with a sharp intake of breath & a Gallic shrug . Is that a Boff? or a Pfiffff? :-)
We were usually "nominated subcontractors" which meant that our payments were certified by the architect & the builder (main contractor) had to prove he had paid us before he got a further payment. Other "private work was done for well known/vetted clients. The other "trick" I had was to negotiate 60 days credit with all of our suppliers whilst getting paid ourselves in 30. If anybody in this crazy chain was going to be "the banker" I always tried to ensure it was me. Our local authority, for whom we did a lot of direct work were good to me. I could always arrange to pick up a cheque which inevitably went on deposit. It did of course help that I played mixed golf with LA financial director & her old man ;-)
Brian, you are absolutely right 30 DOES mean 90, and I heard some wonderful ways of explaining it.
First you always need to know the 'payment cut-off dates' of your clients to ensure your invoice doesn't arrive in the following month e.g. Your Invoice dated 31st January (note this is for work already done during January) would arrive on 3rd February which would mean it went into the following month payment file ie 30 days after arrival or 3rd March. Therefore work done in January (or earlier) would get paid at end-March or whenever their payment day was, ergo - as near to 90 days as makes no difference.
If you know the cut-off dates of clients - and you can ask, and get your invoice in and delivered BEFORE that date then you can work on 60 day payment. 30 day payment doesn't exist UNLESS you stack your invoices to accommodate that. It works both ways, load the invoice by 5% and offer 5% discount if paid before a set date. Surprisingly this worked very well for me once I sussed it out.
Oh yes, and make sure the terms of payment are NOT 'working days' as opposed to calendar days that's another load-up.
Plus best customers to have are those under Receivership or 'Under Management' as these guys HAVE to take advantage of financial discounts by Law - at least they were in Oz.