LOL - so one could perhaps say SNAFU?
I wonder if, because we are already Pacsed, the pacs contract coul replace the certificate de coutume?
Fifty+years ago my French wife and I also gave up on the idea of getting married in France. We had to be back in the UK before a given date and it just wasn't going to happen in France, particularly as, back then, you also had to have a medical including, if memory serves, a blood test (to prove neither of us had a STD, or is that my imagination/failing memory playing up?). So we opted for the UK where everything was sorted with a minimum of fuss and no translations! And this was before the UK joined the EC (maybe because the UK wasn't in the EC!). More recently, our son also found it a lot easier to marry his Moroccan wife in the UK. It was going to be a nightmare here.
However, we do have a Certificat de Coutume because, we were told, the French default position is that people are married under the community of goods regime whereas in the UK it's separation of goods. So when we bought our first home we needed this bit of paper to demonstrate who owned what, and my wife had to "prove" that she was paying 50% of the mortgage otherwise the house would have belonged to me alone. Since when the same, now slightly worn document, has served on many occasions and no-one has ever suggested we should have it renewed.
I believe that is also true of many other countries. Absurdly, we can even go to Las Vegas and get married there, declare the marriage some time after our return, and it is all kosher!
Yes, our Pacs was as easy as yours, but now we have discovered that Pacs does not 'protect' either partner in the way a real marriage does.
Very interesting comment about Legifrance - its almost as if the French administration has not understood the concept of the European Union, and are stuck back in the days of the EEC - the idea that there might be a foreigner in France being an "exception". ;-)
I'll go "up" a level in LegiFrance to see what I can dig up on "european law" level.
I think the latter option may well be the one we end up having to go for.
Yes, in fact the mairie said "yes some years ago we had an anglo-french couple who wanted to marry here, and eventually, they decided it was easier to marry in th UK"
Brilliant!
You see how 'fluid' the obligations are!
re last paragraph: exactly, and I am convinced it is not necessary (but I'm often wrong :-)
Is that so?
We can go to Scotland, as non residents, and marry?
Thanks for the idea - no let me Google "marriage in scotland" :-)
Yes, we did all that, too. I had my BC translated only because his (Senegalese) consulate insisted -- since there is no legal reason for the French to demand a translation. (The Senegalese consulate also insisted that we both had to attend in person twice in Paris -- even though the second time was just to pick up the certificate declaring that we could marry -- they haven't yet caught onto the idea of registered post.)
The British Embassy in Paris was very efficient. But when we had eventually put our dossier together, the Mairie demanded my certificat de coutume. When I told them that the Embassy had said it wasn't necessary, first they checked online, then presented me with a blank piece of paper on which I had to inscribe that I was celibataire, plus place, date and signature!
I lost my last wife in France and i eventually decided to marry somebody else in the Philippines. To do so I had to obtain a certificate of no impediment from the British Embassy in Paris. I had to go there and after they received all the necessary documents they posted a notice on the wall (I belive minimum period 21 days) and then send the document to the British Embassy In Manila wher I had to pick it up. Not sure if this is your first marriage but if it isn't do be very careful about the paperwork. A French friend has just been accused of bigamy as there were some deficiencies in his. Personally I prefer marriage to partnerships. We were marries in the Philippines and it has been accepted as legal by the French, although we did have to pay to get the documents translated.
Neither of us has children and we drew up new wills with our lawyer at the time of our PACS agreement, so I guess we are OK.
Can I just add that it was Hilary that saved my wedding day having down the first translation of my birth certificate and then us finding out it was over 6 months old, she sorted the new translation out in record time so we could go ahead
You've hit the nail on the head, Véro, you're French and so don't need the raft of documents we do. Same goes for my OH: birth cert. and ID card whilst I need to get a whole host of documents sent from the UK, then get the translations done etc. etc.
Still haven't got over being refused my entry on the "père" page of our livret de famille : sorry we can't because you're not French, I'm scribbled in to each of my kids page as being their father but MY page has to be left blanc...! :-O
No, they're not the same, especially regarding succession, see here for more details ;-)
The sites and civil code you quote are for French nationals. Different rules apply for foreigners, even EU ones! As has been the experience of others - and myself in 2011 - foreign nationals need to go through their consulate and provide the documents requested.
In my experience (as a certified translator) some mairies are more flexible on the length of validity of a British Birth certificate and don't insist on a "new" one.
Others have accepted old birth certificates, but insisted on a translation dated within the last 3 or 6 months, which defies all logic!
You need all those extra papers because (I assume) you have a UK birth certificate. Legifrance etc put up the rules for French people because that is who usually consult them, they don't really cater for exceptions because that's confusing, and different rules apply for foreigners because their documents don't work the same way. I have dual nationality (since birth) and usually decide to use whichever documents are going to get me the quickest results - there is a massive difference in speed & ease between 'local' documents and other documents both in the UK & in France.
One thing I do think is that if you turn up without the documents you are being asked for, you are likely to get short shrift. I'm pacsed & all it took was a birth certificate + ID apiece but then we are both French.
Good luck with that. I married my Frenchman in the UK in the end. Much less hassle. Sent the certificate (translated) to Nantes (or wherever it is) for the Livret de Famille and that was that. My mum was happy too.
Why do you say that the PACS agreement isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on? We signed an agreement two years ago and feel that aside from my partner’s ineligiblility to collect my Social Security payments in case I predecease him as the partnership is not recognized in the U.S., we have all the rights and protections of a regular marriage.