Does the WHO statistic include the above (unwanted attention annd apprehension of risk), I wonder, none of which is actually violence?
By some groups seeing these things as normal, I had in mind more those that did them, rather than their victims.
My expectation is that for a substantial portion of those that commit some of those forms of violence, for example marital rape, they see it as normal and a part of their rights for sex when and how they want it. If you called them rapists they would be shocked because they only had sex with their wives who couldnāt refuse them.
Another example may be that recent conversation about bullying, where to some, that behaviour was fine, but to others not.
In non-western cultures I think itās more common for women to be the primary victims of domestic violence, but in western cultures with greater freedom and a different set of expectations, that can be different. This kind of behaviour is never acceptable, whoever does it.
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No it doesnāt, that was something we used at lycĆ©e as a question for teenagers of both sexes in a ruralish area where there isnāt a lot of crime by national standards.
That said perhaps you underestimate the negative effect on teenage girls* of being cat-called by men with accompanying leers and gestures and on occasion exposing themselves.
My pupils who have spoken to me about it have been very upset and it certainly seemed violent to them.
*Iād be as horrified if it were little boys - weirdly enough it doesnāt happen to lycĆ©e age boys that I know of.
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Thatās been raised in the ongoing Mazan trials - the accused donāt feel like rapists or criminals because they simply havenāt thought about consent and if they have itās the wrong personās.
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yes, itās a mindset that I had never imagined existedā¦ ghastly.
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I am at a loss to decide who in this above debate to agree or disagree with, because, speaking as a man who has been violently attacked by a woman to the extent that a doctor was called, to calm her but then refused to because he was afraid, the police were called, in the shape of a diminutive female who immediately sided with her but then when it started to again get out of hand called for help which appeared in the shape of 3 hulking males who declined to enter the building and instead remained outside laughing and joking and loudly demanding to know why I hadnāt smacked her to the floor, I find much of what has been said to be bullshit.
Sorry for the long sentence but I speak from the heart and am fedup to the back teeth at the common assumption that all men behave the same way.
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David, I donāt think you need to endorse anyone specifically. Weāve seen how you have behaved over a long and testing time, and your account here is enough.
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Iām not sure this is a debateā¦ just a discussion back and forth.
For the record, my OH is a wonderful man (only bested by my late-father).
I have never suffered cruelty/abuse from any Manā¦
I remember my Father remonstrating with my brothersā¦
reckoned they were playing a bit tooo roughly with their sisters.
Girls are different to Boysā¦ their bodies are made for babies and they need treating gentlyā¦
You must never punch or hurt a woman.
(well thatās the gist of itā¦)
and I recall subsequently scolding my younger brother who had playfully kicked out at meā¦
āthink of all the unborn babies waiting to be bornā
my younger brother used to delight in recalling that comment later in life when we were both grown upā¦ he was a great tease.
I agree, and I never have, but I do object to the implied corollery, that it is ok to do the same to a man. It isnāt, which forms the basis of my objection to the so-called sport that incourages it. In both sexes nowadays.
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I was told as a tiny child at an all boys prep school (except for me, obv) that I must never ever hit a boy in the sporran area (this was how it was put, we all wore kilts) because they were super fragile and delicate, and it would hurt them. Now as Iād also been told you had to be careful and eat up your fish and look after your brain because it was super fragile and delicate, you can obviously guess the conclusion I came toā¦ Yes of course I thought peopleās brains were in their lower abdomen.
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wow. ā¦
you were a girls at an all boys prep school. In Scotland
And that the boys kept their brains in their sporrrans?
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That would have been a silly thing to think even at 4, which is how old I was (and donāt be horrified, I had a much better chance of survival away at school than with my parents).
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no such thing was impliedā¦
and when my elder brother would take me off to play on the cliffs and beachesā¦ Dad would call out ā¦ ātake care of your sisterāā¦ didnāt mean my brother shouldnāt take care of himself tooā¦
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I went to an all girls boarding school at 8, for similar reasons.
When we were about 14, some lovely men from the armed forces came to teach us self defence. Funnily enough, the thing I remember best - If a man has his hands around your neck, even if heās behind you, donāt try to waste your energy pulling at his hands, he is likely stronger than you. Reach behind, grab his package and squeeze and twist or yank it for all youāre worth! Then run.
Thankfully, I never had need to use. Handy all the same, knowing where the self destruct button is.
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Thatās ridiculous. All of the above involve (some degree) of violence !
No they donāt. Violence is something physical.
If you redefine it to include unwanted attention, you change its meaning.
You could describe the examples as oppression, or bullying.
While non-physical attacks donāt cause damage to the body, they can still traumatised the victim. Of course a simple appreciative whistle may not be intended that way, but can certainly be received as harm. Itās also again a change in culture where a whistle was understood as being appreciation, but now can be more sinister. Especially if the recipient is already feeling scared or uncomfortable.
Times have changed, regardless of how we feel about it.
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