I’m not intending this as a discussion about how or about why one might seek French nationality status. The first can be answered on here and/or by general web searching, and the second is both in, some sense, obvious but also personal. I think I’m interested more generally in the notion of nationality. I guess my thinking is to try and differentiate between nationality as a legal status and nationality as a part of identity.
I was British born (I tend not to say English because whilst born in England, I don’t feel English) but I was raised elsewhere. Indeed, I have more of an affinity with the country of my upbringing than that of my birth. So I tend to be somewhat confused/conflicted over the notion of nationality. But because my commonwealth upbringing has clearly had British influences, the differences are not so marked - the different cultures being not so far apart. French nationality, however, would be an entirely different matter.
I will seek French nationality, if I have to, as a purely legal status quite separate from any notion I have of my identity. I find myself feeling that’s a bit somehow, well, I guess almost deceitful. Clearly, merely having a French passport will not make me French. Whilst I might live here for many more years to come (at least, I hope so!), and no matter which passport(s) I hold, I will never BE French nor profess to be so.
Similar. Our family are nationality mongrels, neither of my parents were born in britain and changed nationality themselves. And despite 70 odd years in the UK my mother never quite ended up English. I was born and bred in the UK, so culturally I am English, but I have no nationalist feelings at all. The very word I find uncomfortable. So I don’t see that nationality is part of my identity at all.
I will apply for French nationality, and like you recognise that I can never “be” french. However for me it is not deceitful as I wish to be a full contributing citizen of this country and now, post-Brexit, don’t see how that is possible unless I seek nationality.
I am a mixture of ethnic backgrounds and cultures and nationalities, I feel completely at home with all of them, but don’t identify 100% with any of them: it helps that I was brought up and educated in all of them and never spent much time in one place but regularly rotated through several. People just take me for a native of these various places, when I am there, and that is fine.
An interesting one, Mark. I’m over two years into the naturalisation process and should have French nationality within 6 months. And that says it all, in-line with your thoughts above, I’ll have French nationality, I’ll be Anglo-French, anglo-français, franco-britannique but not just French. I lose the UK vote this year, my OH and kids are French, my life is french, my business is french, I effectively collect drug-taxes for the french state! 99% of my day to day exchanges are in French. My BAC+4 is French not English. Mais dans mes tripes je suis anglais, un anglais bien francisé, 100% européen, mais à la base, anglais, l’anglais du coin !
I cannot ever be not German. Even though I have not lived there since the late 80’s. But I am a European. Paris was my weekend getaway & party pad - just a 5 hours drive from home. Always had ‘itchy feet’, so lived in the USA, UK & Canada finally came to France via Scotland.
Will try & get a long term residency, but won’t apply for French passport, as I am not sure where I will find my final ‘resting’ place.
Right now, France feels like my natural home.
I’ve always described my self as English (never British) because I was born in England…it seems simple to me…
English is my nationality but I’m not nationalistic except when I consider my Scottish roots and have every sympathy with Scotland being dragged out of the EU when they overwhelmingly voted to remain…
I can’t see any set of circumstances where I would want to apply for French nationality…as much as I love where I am currently I will never be French and it wouldn’t feel right to me in my particular situation…
I’m still irritated that at some point I will have to apply for a resident’s permit…in no way am I feeling antagonistic towards France who I feel are doing their best to navigate the twists and turns of Brexshit…
I don’t think there’s any reason to feel that. You apply. France has a good look at you and decides whether it wants you as a citizen or not. Where is your deceit?
The ‘deceit’ is within myself. I’d have a French passport but not feel in the least French.
I need to break the link I have between passport and identity. There’s a chap I know who insists I am English (because my passport states I was born in England) despite me saying I’m not. We’re both right of course (even though his insistence angers me!) - it’s just the context. He’s talking about legal status and I’m talking about how I feel.
Just to add that I would have applied even if Brexit hadn’t have reared its ugly head. In fast I had originaly printed off the paperwork back in 2010 once I had 5 years residency but shelved it due to the complexity and lack of time (working full time and two young kids). I would have got round to it one day but Brexit gave me the push I needed!
Re Nationality… 16 years ago, I had a lengthy discussion with our Maire. He explained that I would more or less gain nothing except the possibility of being Maire… and that the process was lengthy, expensive and involved a long paper-trail. As a result, I let the matter drop… it was the right decision at that time…
and he was right, at the time, plus you can vote here! If for any reason I don’t get it this time round (very unlikely from what I’ve been told) I’ll just have to wait another 11 years and it’ll be my right at 65 years old + 25 years residency + father to French children
If people meet the current residency criteria then I don’t see why they should worry. Personally I would never apply for Nationality even if it was the only way to stay here, it just wouldn’t be right as I will never see myself as anything other than English.
Tim … At the very least, Nationality means you can vote (have a voice)… it will be galling to have to sit back and watch local things unfold without OH and I having the chance to put our point of view (vote)
Yes, that’s the very thing I’m referring to; how one sees oneself and how that might contradict with what it says on the legal documentation. Of course, I’m already in that boat but give myself a bit of wiggle room by referring to myself as British rather than English.
For me, ‘British’ is a legal status and so one I can accept - whereas ‘English’ encroaches on my sense of personal identity.
I think you’re beating yourself up over nothing. Obviously you can never become a native Frenchman. But you can be a native Englishman who has taken French nationality, ie voluntarily entered into a close contract with the French state where you have mutual obligations - you’ve undertaken to uphold France’s values and do your duty as a French citizen as per France’s citizens’ charter, and France has granted you certain privileges in return such as the right to vote in national elections.
Can’t you accept “native English who has taken French nationality” as an identity?
That is an approach, yes. I’d have to tweak it a little though and say ‘native Britain who has taken French nationality’!
Identity is an important part of who we are; easy to trivialise (not that you are Anna) but I think one should not understate its importance and role in determining our everyday ‘feel good’ factor.
Voting does mean a great deal to me/us… but, maybe not to you and not to some other folk in many countries.
We’ve been here longer than some forum folk and have seen how things work, or don’t work, depending on who is in control of the commune/area/region etc… we understand and appreciate the value of voting.
it will be galling to have to sit back and watch local things unfold without OH and I having the chance to put our point of view (vote)
