Hello. My wife and I are considering relocating to France, probably somewhere in the South. One of my main concerns with regards to this is be able to find musicians to play with, and to be able to play out occasionally. I’m a very experienced bass player. (Primarly electric fretted and fretless, but also upright. Can also sing background if needed). Since I went to music school ages ago I can read music just fine, but actually prefer playing in ensembles where folks aren’t reading on stage.
Since I’m retired from an engineering career, I’m not concerned about income from music, but here in the U.S. I play in a couple of bands and do other random gigs as they come up. My fear is that if we move, I’ll be unable to stay active musically.
I’ve been doing a little research, and have learned that music performances are somewhat regulated by the government in certain cases, and you have to apply for some sort of status in some cases, and some venues require this? It’s all very confusing, and I’m hoping someone here can help clarify what is going on.
I’m also concerned about the language. I’m decent at learning languages - I was once fluent in German and can get around enough in simple situations in Spanish. But I know no French at all. If we come I can dig in and spend at least a couple hours a day learning, plus just trying to use the language day to day. But I can’t afford to be out of the playing game for two years while I become somewhat fluent. So that’s a concern. I can understand that French musicians wouldn’t want to deal with someone who can’t easily relate to them in French.
So I’m here asking for input, and wondering what other ex pat musicians experience trying to stay active musically in France, especially when it’s not Paris.
If you are American you will be most likely coming over on an inactive/visitor visa. So you will not be allowed to take any professional gigs or do any paid work.
However there are opportunities to play with others in a voluntary/leisure way. And there are venues where people jam, and open mic sessions.
No doubt if you stick to an expat bubble there will be other opportunities in that world.
We looked at Portugal, Costa Rica, Panama, visited them all for a while. We’ve considered Spain, but we hear that in general the people are not all that friendly. It may be region specific but we don’t know.
Frankly, I’m not sure where else to consider. My concerns are the same everywhere. Being able to play music, having to learn a new language. Other than that, not living someplace that is freezing cold.
I understand the comment about being behind the 8 ball with French, which is part of my cause for concern. Certainly we will engage with French immediately if it looks like an option, but the runway will be short in any case, even so. Learning a language only goes so fast …
I don’t need pay, but if all the decent players and ensembles tend to be paid, then I’m guessing that is a problem. Voluntary leisure is fine (see above), but does that rule out public performances?
Open mic sessions tend to be very unrewarding for a bass player. I’ve found that out the hard way. Unless you are part of the “house band”. Otherwise, you are expected to support on tunes you might not even know, there are rarely charts to read so that’s no help. Etc.
Expat bubble might be OK, especially while learning the language. But how big is the ex pat bubble? Especially since we are not talking about Paris?
As @JaneJones says, an inactif visa means you undertake not to work at all.
You could join a band and do paid gigs - this is something I’ve considered - on the understanding that you receive no pay, but I don’t know how the authorities would view this, ie whether they would believe you.
You could look on musiciansdansmaville to see what the scene is like in areas of interest.
You say you are experienced, but are you at a level to play professionally? And would you want to? As one option would be to set up as a professional musician but to get a visa to do that you would have to prepare a business plan that shows you could earn minimum income. And that could be hard work achieving.
I just did a quick search in a popular area for Americans, and came up with 282 bass players available locally. So you would be competing with a lot of others, mainly French speaking.
To be blunt, if you want to find people to play with non-professionally then it is highly likely that will be possible in time. People in our tiny village play with friends, put on evenings for local commune, etc. And the good ones get paid work as they have the right to work here. So you may find fellow Americans in your position who you can join on a non-earning basis.
But if you are expecting to be able to arrive in France with no language skills and be welcomed with open arms into an existing French group then you will be disappointed.
There are LOADS of expat covers bands in France and they’re especially busy playing the night markets in high season. If you live in a rural area though you might have to travel some to link up with other expat musicians.
The ones I have encountered were British who have been here long enough that they have the right to work. Whether they declared the work is a separate issue. But a newcomer working illegally runs risks that the OP needs to be aware of.
Playing a paid gig under the radar in front of an audience is a contradiction in terms I think, unless maybe a strictly expat-only audience. Otherwise it may not sit well with local professional performers who need the work.
There are zillions of anglophone people of a certain age playing stuff for the anglophone tourists at night markets in SW 24 all summer, I bet they would be up for new bods.
This is all really good feedback and thanks to everyone for responding. To answer one question - yes I do play at a professional level and have been performing in public for over 45 years. Am I going the be the hottest guy in town in any sizable place? No, there are always better players around. But the 282 bandbox entries seems to largely be guitar players who maybe sing who also happen to list bass guitar.
Since I’m not looking for income and don’t speak French and since the paying route seems legally complicated anyway, it seems the best way to get my feet wet is to try to find other anglophone expat musicians. So the next question would be - to explore this avenue, what town/cities (say in the South) would be best to try this? And in order to try to get a head start before making a reconnaissance trip, what recommendations could be made to contact local expat musicians? Expat Facebook groups for those areas? Here at survivefrance? Other suggestions?
The OP says he is a retired engineer planning to settle here, not a 20 year old trying to make enough to cover a few weeks holiday. If he chooses to break laws that’s up to him, but he needs to know these laws exist.
Not looking to break laws. The frustrating part is knowing exactly what the laws are. I saw a YouTube video by a British guy who lives in France and has been trying to get a precise understanding for a couple months now without a lot of success. The government types he asks aren’t really able to make it crystal clear and don’t seem to really know. He has talked to many musicians and the way they deal with it varies wildly depending on the person. Basically super hard to get a straight story.
Usually it’s because people don’t ask the right question. Or trying to make things fit into the way systems work in their own country. Or don’t speak very good French and misunderstand.
And yes there are quite a number of ways that musicians operate, many are intermittents, others have enough work to be AE.
It sounds a bit like asking people how they get from A to B and being surprised when you get different answers. It all depends on the person’s situation.
There are certain principles everybody knows they must respect, the main one being that if you earn money you pay cotisations. It is a solidarity thing.
Beyond that people’s mileages vary. Some need a route where they can claim chomage when they have no work. Some make money from writing songs and selling recordings as well as performing. Etc. These things affect how it is best to register.
So no you will not get one simple answer on “how to do it”. Really you need to understand how the system works and how the various bits fit together, URSSAF etc, and then look at the different possible routes to meeting your obligations and decide which would suit you best. Not simply asking another person how they operate and then copying them. It is more important to understand why they chose to operate how they do. And yes, doing your research and figuring out how things work takes time and effort. Unfortunately that is how it sometimes is in France.
On the upside I have heard that musicians in France have far better social protection than in other countries.
The truth is a lot of French people just ignore the laws. The further out into the country you go , the truer that is. The black economy is huge here. If you’re coming from an anglosphere country used to playing by the rules it takes a while to adjust