Quite true. It’s unnecessary. It reflects on the quality of the school and the teachers if they can’t maintain discipline and engagement without it.
Not saying all schools are like this. But this one certainly is. There are many good teachers there as well but clearly, they have a problem with some.
Thanks for that Karen. Yes, That will probably be the solution. The tendency to put the blame on the kids is really rather unfortunate, like they might deserve it or were asking for it. Looks like victim shaming to me. If an adult can’t keep it together long enough to be professional and keep their hands to themslevs, then I’d suggest they seek another profession. There are plenty of ways to enforce rules without resorting to this.
Not saying all schools are like this. But this one certainly is. There are many good teachers there as well but clearly, they have a problem with some.
Strongly suggest joining or creating a parents association with other parents so that you can be heard. It’s not difficult.
You can setup independently or join one of the existing ones. There are a lot of local resources to reach out to if you have any issues.
For example the closest Maison Citoyenne/ Maison du Quartier which have a host of associations on call like anti-harcellement, legal, psychological, counsellors, homework help for your kids. Then there’s the education team at your Mairie, the Academie de Toulouse, etc.
We created our own independent parents association here in Colomiers and it has given us a clearer view of how the elementary schools, middle and high schools are run/decisions made.
No teacher is authorised to touch, pull your child as far as I am aware.
You can contact consumer associations like https://orgeco-occitanie.fr/ (Occitanie Consumer Association) https://www.clcv.org/ (French Consumer Association) for legal and other advice. Hope this is useful.
Good luck.
Ulysses
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Thanks, good advice. I’ll make some enquiries.
This is a Catholic school, so some parents will have fairly rigid ideas of how to bring up their children, school doing the same thing won’t shock them.
I am a French person and I have met these parents, they don’t see a fessée or a slap as a problem. So that is what you are up against, inertia as I said before.
I was head of the PTA at my children’s primary school, at first in the mainstream village school and then at the Catholic one in town which I moved them to because of my work commitments. I also teach in lycée and think up anti-drop out policy.
Thanks. yes, I’m getting in touch with the school PTA. As ‘luck’ would have it, they sent an email last night calling for feedback about the schools processes and care of the children so I’ll provide some and see if that gets anywhere as a first step. Thanks again.
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I’m very sorry to hear this. I would definitely try to stop it or if possible change schools. I’ve worked in a variety of French schools in Paris for nearly 4 years now and I’ve not seen physical abuse as you’ve mentioned but I have seen children shamed and shouted at which I think is the norm here. That’s still very damaging and I’ve hated it. There’s a huge culture difference between UK and French schools. I’ve even see one director shout at a grandmother at the school gates because she didn’t have her ID with her. I may be wrong but I just don’t think that lack of professionalism and respect would happen in the UK.
I hope you can put a stop to it. There’s nothing that a child could ever do to warrant that behaviour. I hope you can get the other parents to stand up got their children too. Good luck!
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Yes, it is a pity. I’ve never seen or heard of this sort of thing for at least 50 years in my home country. It was stamped out long ago and the academic standards have not suffered. Kids actually enjoy learning and they thrive. Laws are in place and are enforced. It’s called child abuse if it happens at home or in a school. Any adult who doesn’t have enough self control or training to direct children without resorting to this has no business being in charge of kids. Don’t get me wrong, many of the teachers are very good and maintain a healthy level of discipline. However, some are certainly out of control and in breach of the law. One day it will go too far. Speaking with other parents, they are aware and aren’t happy about it. Unfortunately, they are scared of retaliation if they make a fuss so it continues. It’s a shame some of the good teachers can’t do anything but then again, it’s not their job to sort this out, it’s the leadership that should be managing the staff and standards, they don’t seem to have a problem with it. I think ultimately, we’ll simply vote with our feet and leave them to their out of date practices. It’s a very poor reflection on the school and people are talking. It’s sad to see a society that claims to hold civil rights above everything else yet allows its youngest and most vulnerable to be mistreated like this. Something is wrong in my humble opinion. As I’m sure some would say, if you don’t like it then go home. Probably will. My kids come before my convenience. Thanks for the comments, much appreciated.
People don’t have to send their children to these schools. It is their choice. These schools have a protected characteristic (ie religion) which we think has no place in mainstream school. Take your children out if you don’t like it, you have that option.
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Not sure what a ‘protected characteristic’ has to do with allowing the violation of a childs human and civil rights. Just because a school operates inder protected characteristic status shouldnt mean that anything goes. Ceratainly not what I signed up for. Anyway, yes it’s an option to remove them, and a good one. Thanks.
What I mean by that is that you are unlikely to change the system with beneficial effect on your child, children aren’t actually in schools for very long, relatively to the career of some of these teachers.
Moreover it is even more difficult to get rid of an unsatisfactory teacher in the private schools than it is in the mainstream ones and it is, in both, an extremely opaque and long-drawn-out process, so the only quick fix you have is changing schools.
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Agreed, the acceptance of such behaviour in the system is obvious and won’t be changed any time soon. Not something to be proud of but a reality I guess.
Choosing a religious school in an explicitly secular country is a significant indicator of traditional values for some people, that can mean all sorts of things including thinking that if you spare the rod you spoil the child etc.
Don’t get me started on the hors contrat religious schools which should all be abolished imho.
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Yes. I can say I have learned my lesson well in that regard. Progress is always slow and I’m lucky to have other options. Thanks for the comments. Appreciated.
Conservatoire is not school but… I have actually found there’s a switch that gets turned infrequently. Teachers are kind, nice, helpful, smiley, up to a point, and at that point they get very severe.
Today, the keyboard teacher was shouting at a kid who had been running in the corridor - or rather, speaking very, very forcefully. And rationally. But making the point, and hard.
However, physical violence isn’t something I’ve ever seen and children I know through the Conservatoire don’t experience it at school either.
My kids have been to a few schools in our local area, which is a fairly impoverished area, which does result in a few playground fights (my kids have never been involved thankfully), but never once has a teacher acted inappropriately. If it had happened, I’m sure my wife and I would have been straight onto it, and would be talking to the head of the school, the mayor and even the gendarmes.
When they were very young (3 or 4 years old) they did get bulled on the school bus by kids that were much older. The school wouldn’t help because it wasn’t at school, the bus company wouldn’t help, and the mayor wasn’t being of much help either, so we called the parent who didn’t take it that seriously either until we threatened to get the gendarmes involved, and then the bullying stopped.
Fortunately, I’ve not heard of any bullying amongst the children. The respect between the kids actually seems very good. I think the problem lies with the definition of ‘inappropriate’ behavior. Some systems seem to have a greater tolerance for physical corrective action than others. For me, this has been an unexpected culture shock (to go along with the expected ones) but nothing that changing schools won’t fix. I’d assume that the vast majority of schools in France don’t have this problem. Isolated I’m sure.
I relayed the gist of this thread to my wife, who personally suffered mental and physical (non-sexual) abuse at the hands of various nuns in her Catholic primary school. She absolutely echoed the ‘get them out of that school as soon as is practical’ views expressed earlier.
Even now, at 60, she is still haunted by the fear of being punished for making even the most minor mistake, 55 years after first going to that primary school. She obviously hopes your 2 are as unaffected as possible in the circumstances. Best of luck with any school moves.
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