Some advice please. I have 2 children in school here. To say it’s been a culture shock for them would be an understatement. I’ve been getting stories back about what can only be described as abuse by the teachers and supervisors… Now, being from an anglo country, we simply don’t tolerate teachers who resort to verbal or physical abuse, grabbing and pushing kids around to get compliance. They’d be out of the job and probably be charged with assault. I’m starting to think this is normal? My 13 year old daughter was grabbed by a teacher and forcibly shoved into a wall yesterday and my 9 year old often relays stories of his teacher screaming at kids until they break down crying. She also pulls them by the arm or ear across the room to place them into the ‘dummy’ corner for any perceived wrongdoing. Nine year olds! This is a daily occurance. Now, I know if I did this to someone, I’d be up on an assault charge. If I did it to someone’s child, the charge would no doubt be something worse. Why do teachers, who one would expect to be setting an example of civil behaviour, be allowed to get away with this antisocial and frankly, criminal behaviour? I know the other parents are aware but are worried that if they say anything, their children will be singled out for ‘special’ attention. The school leadership is also aware and condoned it through lack of any corrective action… I’m thinking of going to the Police and/or go public to shine a light on this 1900’s era schooling. This is a clear breach of the UN charter of rights of the child of which France is a signatory. Any better ideas welcomed.
What did your children do to warrant the teachers behavior
Talk to the head of the association de parents d’élèves (primary) and the professor principal, the FCPE or the PEEP (secondary).
Once you have done that, ask for a meeting with the teacher(s) concerned. If your French is not good get someone reliable and competent to go with you.
If you don’t get anywhere make a formal complaint via the inspecteur d’académie (primary) the administration ie head, deputy head, cpe (secondary).
At the same time teaching in France is a lot less touchy feely and poor little you-ish than in English-speaking countries, they don’t ask children to do things, they tell them and standards of behaviour are both slightly different and stricter. So be aware of that.
Thanks. I’ll look into this. While we dont expect "kid gloves’ and ‘children wipersing’ for the kids, No one should accept their children being physcally pushed around or screamed at by anyone. That’s called bullying and shows the teachers arent in control of themsleves. Like I said, it woulndt be tolerated on the street. It shouldnt be accepted behind closed doors. You’d think a Catholic school would be a bit smarter given recent history…
Unless they committed literal murder on another pupil I’m not sure there’s ever any correct answer? Sounds like we’ve gone back 50 years when women were asked ‘what did you do which made your husband give you a black eye?’
That said, I guess of course the key here is whether it is actually true, and whether it’s true in the way described, only the OP can know their own kids well enough to make a judgement on that.
I’d like to know what behaviour justifies pushing kids into walls or dragging them across the floor? I’m all for disiplne, not for physical abuse. For the record, the 13 year old was mistaken idetity. The suoervisor thought she was another child who had transgressed. The 9 yr old boy apperently spoke when he shouldnt have. Welcome to the middle ages.
They have their own rules and are generally less hands off than ‘normal’ schools particularly in primary. Many teachers have been there for ages and haven’t moved with the times (or legislation) but as they are dealing with a population who have chosen that school specifically because it is stricter, nobody says much.
The PTA is the APEL in schools with a religious affiliation and you can also talk to the head, whose role is not quite the same as in non-affiliated schools. If you want to escalate you need to find out who the head of diocesan education is, and talk to them.
Physical chastisement of children is banned in France in school and in the home, so you need to be having a word.
What is described isn’t physical chastisement, it is unacceptable but it still can’t be called physical chastisement.
Laying hands on a child is perhaps open to interpretation. Shoving them to make them comply is heading in that direction.
Looking back I was a terrible child as a consequence my mother beat me with a stick, at school I was canned regularly, standing for hours outside the head masters office had the blackboard erasure thrown at me and rulers edge on across the face it did not effect my life and I did not repeat on my children
Oh I certainly think it is wrong - but many of those children will come from homes where that kind of thing is considered ok and just a normal reaction and for the child’s own good so it is difficult to get much traction, as a parent who isn’t like that.
It doesn’t mean I condone it or think it is pointless trying to change things, I’m just saying that status quo inertia in schools like that is strong.
If they come from a home where it’s considered OK a school shouldn’t be reinforcing that behaviour. It could well be the kids are going out of their way to wind up the teachers. Most think their own kids are perfect little angels. It would do to find out the truth and take matters on from there.
Makes a change from Liam Gallagher
Yes, there certainly is a “it happened to me and I turned out ok” syndrome at work . That’s how abuse of any kind continues. It’s normalised and never addressed. The problem is, it does cause great difficulty with many kids and they become completly demotivated. I’ve watched a straight ‘A’ student who used to love learing gradualy become demoralised and always stressed about going to school. If I don’t get anywhere (and I don’t expect much to be honest), I’ll change schools or countries if required. As their dad, If I don’t take action to protect my kids from this nonsense, then who will? It’s a scandal really, in 2023 schools still treat the kids so shamefuly. It’s not as if it’s producing great results with these outdated policies. Quite the opposite in fact.
I know of enough Brit kids going to schools in France who absolutely love it and physical abuse has never been mentioned. I don’t think it’s a nationwide issue. But you may well be wise to check out the reputation of schools if seeking an alternative.
Tarring all French schools with the one brush really isn’t fair is it though.
They sure aint angels, no kid is. Never the less, resorting to verbal and physical abuse isnt going to get them the results they desire. Most first world countries figured that out a long time ago.
#StunnedKiwi in these matters I’d follow @Vero who is a senior 'insider".
I’m not sure you’re hearing the full story here - could be worse could be better - and a parent’s leap to defend their children is always natural.
I think I’d be looking at them carrying a phone that is always recording audio. Then uploading any interesting snippets each evening at home in case the phone is spotted and confiscated. Might take a while, but if what your kids have said is going on, is going on, you’d eventually have enough snippets that a blank denial by head teacher, ineffective investigation etc., can’t do away with a formal complaint when you make one.
It also sounds like whichever way this goes, if you can find another school to take your kids from September, you’d better.
Karen - Lot & Waikato