If you can justify that, I would say that is your base starting point. If that can be backed up with documentary evidence that your CdS (WARP) application similarly mentioned a December time frame then all to the good as well as any notification to HMRC about your move to France from the UK. Income from the UK prior to residency (whilst not a French resident) will be of no interest to the fisc. Someone else even mentioned in this topic that they took their data round to the fisc in similar circumstances to yours (a December-ish move) and they expressed complete disinterest in any 2020 UK income. One thing to remember is that French fisc are not as terrifying as their UK counterparts. You can actually talk to them and seek advice on what to do (in many cases - Covid permitting) face to face.
All of which could simply be explained as preparatory work for your permanent move and if you made no declarable earnings from it at that time, then all to the good but keep the records safely tucked away (indeed, in France, never throw paperwork away).
Hopefully your question is addressed in this respect.
Actions speak louder than words. As indicated, your CdS (WARP) application, notification to HMRC in the prescribed format that you have left the clutches of the UK and other such records will all contribute positively to that justification including your notice terminating employment in the UK.
As a side note, don’t forget to complete the Form France-Individual when you have a French tax reference (usually after your first return). Any tax you have paid to HMRC which is recoverable can be claimed on this form too.
Best of luck with your new life in France.
whoops! The link to final dates is now showing 20 May for paper returns, and my tax inspector has not responded to my e-mail giving him the stering amounts and dates for him to convert to the euro amounts.
Presume it’s no big deal, but maybe best to call him monday?
The online date is the 10 June I think for this departement.
Can there be a penalty if there is no tax to pay or is it like the UK - e.g. £100. I presume waiting for his e-mail would be a reasonable excuse?
Monday is a holiday in France le lundi de Pentecôte
got a calculator? Multiply the sterling figure by 1.13 to give you the result in Euro…
Doubtful
Still time for your to register online to submit your return with the handy guide further up the topic. All you need is your 13 digit numéro fiscal reference from your last tax bill (or if you don’t have one, as indicated further up the topic, request one on oline).
France is more reasonable… there is no fixed penalty as such but there can be penalties for missing deadlines - each case on it’s own merits. Always best not to tempt providence though with the fisc. Last thing you want is to be in the frame for a contrôle
Yes, an important form
I didn’t have the need to fill in this form until my OAP kicked in as that when coupled to other UK income pushed my UK tax liability through the roof.
I hastily submitted the form to HMRC In January this year and was looking forward to a refund very soon. I called HMRC last week as had heard nothing.
They confirmed it had been received and would be dealt with in September!!
They assured me that extra staff have been employed to deal with the backlog
I wonder if when it comes around to January 2022 and the deadline for 20/21 tax year looms they will except my plea that I have employed additional staff to cope with my backlog.
I hope my tax refund will have been sorted by then🤞
Thanks for such a prompt and thorough reply @graham, I very much appreciate it!
Your responses pretty much backup some of my initial assumptions and are really helpful. As you suggest, I agree that all of my initial time in France can be considered as preparatory work so I’m going to proceed as so.
As for the France-Individual form (and thanks also @JohnBoy for your input on this), is this something that I still need to complete if I am no longer a tax resident in the UK? I don’t own property or take from a UK pension (although I am leaving a private pension in the UK for now) and my GBP savings aren’t earning any interest. As a result I never historically filed a tax return in the UK and I submitted the P85 form as soon as I received my P45 (and have since received a refund) so i’m on the assumption that i’m free from having to deal with UK tax authorities anymore and thus I was assuming that I didn’t have to worry about double taxation and so on.
I could be being naive though as it did seem to be easier than I was expecting. Thanks again!
absolutely! It regularises your tax position with the UK and (in theory at least) any tax taken off you by UK banks in interest payments should be free of tax in the UK (but subject to analysis for tax in France).
When, eventually, you get pension income from whatever source in the UK, if you have completed FF-I you will not be taxed in the UK on it (unless, under the DTT you have a Govt Service Pension - not the State Pension) and you will also obtain an S1 or whatever equivalent document exists at the time regarding health care costs and payment of cotisations on it (French pensioners pay cotisations on their pension income). I’m not certain how Brexit has impacted on that aspect for UK pensioners.
If you have managed to get in to France under the WA arrangements, then things certainly are easier than otherwise they might have been for you post Brexit sans WA). You are not in any way being naïve, just asking the right questions to get to where you want to be.
Look at this this way, if your combined pension income (per individual as UK tax allowances are on individuals - France on the foyer) exceeds £12,500 then you will be taxed on the excess at whatever rates apply to the excess. But with the FF-I in place, no tax will be due on in the UK on that income in excess of £12,500 and only France will tax it. The rates of tax (for pensioners particularly) is more beneficial in France with an additional allowance for pension income.
I trust that makes it a bit more clear.
You submit to HMRC a form they issue which you get signed by French tax authorities confirming the date from which you became a French tax payer, (they will only do this once you have submitted and they have processed your first return) and as a result of the double taxation treaty you will be refunded any tax that HMRC claimed since you became fiscally resident in France. But it it will take HMRC about 12 weeks to process the form.
I understand that you are only ‘fined’ or whatever if your second tax return is late - apparently the tax authorities are not surprised if new arrivals don’t manage to file on time. I can’t remember where I read this but know I have seen it more than once.
I have a Paypal account number! I logged into my account and looked at settings. Top left it shows the year I opened my account but no date besides that. I clicked on Data and Privacy at the top and was given an option to download my data. I chose Credit Information (although it turns out I hadn’t asked for credit). I had to wait for a response (it said it may take 30 days but it took less than 24 hours in my case) and was sent a pdf which included personal details and a 19 digit account number. So much for them saying you don’t have an account number.
I am using ecb.europe.eu website to calculate the exchange rate. It gives daily rates - okay for this year as I only have December 2020 to declare may prove more difficult next year.
The conventional wisdom is that, if you receive your income or Pension in Euro, then use that figure for your French Tax return otherwise either use the close rate on the day payment was received (requires some effort to achieve) or the annualised GBP/EUR for the year. The annualised rate can be calculated from the close rate on the prior 31/12 and the close rate 31/12 for the year in view divided by 2 or any mix of the methods outlined as indicated by your circumstances.
Just keep records of how you arrived at your figure - a spreadsheet is ideal for this (and in fact what I use).
Exactly what I do, and I refer back for method every year. All our UK income is paid into a UK bank, then transferred at intervals over the year. I add up all the pounds, then add up all the euros received, divide one by the other and hey presto get the figure I use. It has never been challenged. This year it is 1.13.
what happens though if you don’t convert all the GBP to EUR?
I tackle this by using the annualised rate for the balance.
1.13 is about on the money though for 2020
The calculation is purely to get the average exchange rate and all the income, transferred or not, is declared at the rate produced. The amount we leave in the UK is minimal now, really just enough to cover £1.99 downloads for the Kindle from time to time, so the rate obtained is a true record of total income received.
Can somebody please explain how French tax bands work in order to have some idea of liability.
I see that for 2021 a rate of 11% is applied to income between €10,085 and €25,710 and 30% between €25,711 and €73,516.
Is the relevant % rate applied to income after the “parts” calculation and any allowances have been worked through?
eg for a household of just two adults with a total income of €40,000 then the rate payable would be in fact 11% (although the actual gross amount is in the 30% band)?
@graham …thanks for the links, the first one will, i think , help me…as for the second it just confirms my decision to hand it to a qualified person to do the return, I would either end up paying too much by missing an allowance or too little and get my collar felt for inadvertent avoidance!
I cannot see how to enter an account number for a Paypal acct. impots.gouv will only accept alphanumerics but Paypal use the holder’s email address as the account identifier. This gets thrown out. So I can’t go beyond that page!
I did post a suggestion on this either in this topic or in the Bank accounts one… use something like my.email at yoohoo dot com.
Someone else also posted how they found the account number - it involved printing out something from the site.
EDIT: I found the post about Paypal A/c Numbers at post 228 above:
