The US as a whole has descended to Trump's level

America has adopted Trump’s values (or lack of them), this IS the America of today, it’s not, as might have been argued first time around, an aberration. We just better get used to it.

Donald Trump’s openly authoritarian instincts are about to be unleashed – The Irish Times

Trump’s win is a triumph for dictators and authoritarians everywhere. Photograph: Doug Mills/The New York Times

This is America now. It is a country that sees its authentic self reflected most clearly in the figure of a sexual predator, a racist, a misogynist, a fraudster, a felon, a coup monger, an inveterate liar and a senescent spewer of increasingly deranged and vulgar nonsense. The world must now come to terms with the undeniable fact that the US has freely and fairly chosen to embody its values in a man it knows damn well to be all those things.

This is not like 2016, when Donald Trump lost the popular vote but won the presidency because of the way a relative handful of votes fell in a small number of swing states. It is not even like the four years that followed when all the signs were that Trump was historically unpopular.

Back then, it was possible to say that many Americans voted for Trump without really having a clear idea of how he would govern, that many others imagined that he would be safely controlled by responsible adults and that, after all, most Americans didn’t vote for him. It was possible to think that, however grim his tenure might be, it would be a passing phase, a temporary derangement.

There is nothing temporary in the meaning of Trump’s comprehensive victory over Kamala Harris. The widely touted belief that this was a pivotal election in US history was not overblown. That history has taken a turn, not just because of Trump himself but because of the new majority that either embraces his fascistic rhetoric or is at the very least not seriously repelled by it.

The turn is not, as promised, towards a renewed American greatness. On the contrary, America will be diminished, both internally and externally. The vigour of America’s society and of its economy are fundamentally dependent on the health of its democratic traditions, the strength of the rule of law, the quality of its scientific and educational cultures and its openness to new people and new ideas.

All of these will be weakened. Trump’s Supreme Court has already cleared the way for him to act with virtual impunity and his control of Congress (certain in relation to the Senate, probable for the House of Representatives) will be further enhanced by the crushing nature of his victory. His openly authoritarian instincts will not be constrained.

As for the rule of law, it was not one of his enemies who described Trump as “a person that has nothing but contempt for our democratic institutions, our Constitution, and the rule of law.” It was his own former chief of staff John Kelly. Not only is Trump already a convicted felon, but he now does not even have to consider re-election. It will be open season for both personal corruption and for the weaponisation of the justice system against his opponents and critics.

The scientific culture that is so vital to American prosperity has already had a taste of Trump’s glorification of ignorance in his appalling indulgence of crackpot “cures” during the Covid pandemic. With the brain-addled conspiracy theorist Robert Kennedy Jr and the enthusiastic spreader of disinformation Elon Musk now by Trump’s side, the assault on science will be all the more fundamental. Its primary aim will, of course, be the enhancement of climate change denial to the benefit of the fossil fuel industries.

Educational policy, meanwhile, will almost certainly be handed over to the religious fanatics who have, in many states, already started to remove books they don’t like from schools and libraries. Musk’s enthusiasm for firing “obsolete” public school teachers will be a great start to the project of making America ignorant again.

And the openness to migration that has given the US its social, cultural and economic dynamism is threatened by Trump’s plans to terrorise immigrant communities by unleashing a military-led campaign of mass arrests and deportations. But it is also undermined by the spectacular electoral success of Trump’s violently anti-immigrant rhetoric. Every opportunist politician now knows that there are no limits to how far you can go in your attacks on non-white migrants. The long-term consequences are obvious.

For the outside world, Trump’s win is a triumph for dictators and authoritarians everywhere. But it is specifically a victory for Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping. For Putin, it means that US backing for Ukraine will likely cease in the new year, raising the stark question of whether the European Union is willing and able to assume the burden of funding and supplying its resistance to invasion. Since the answer to that question is most probably no, the chances of an end to the war on Russia’s terms are now very high. That in turn would leave Putin free to throw his weight around the rest of the former Soviet empire.

As for China, Trump will almost certainly hand it global leadership on the single most important issue facing humanity: climate change. By reversing Joe Biden’s progress towards a green transition for the world’s biggest carbon polluter, Trump will offer China the opportunity to leap ahead with green technologies, take the moral high ground and present itself as the sane and responsible superpower. That ought to be a staggering prospect.

It is no longer possible to batten down the hatches and think “this too will pass”. For all his chaotic and instinctive impulses Trump has already created huge long-term changes in the US: completely altering the nature of the Republican Party, unravelling reproductive rights, installing a militantly right-wing Supreme Court. He now has the chance to follow the other right-wing authoritarian leaders he so admires and create a semi-permanent hegemony.

He has a mandate to do this. His agenda has been not so much spelled out as roared across the entire landscape of American politics. He was very clear in his intention to redefine those who are not loyal to him as the “enemy from within” who must be crushed, by state-controlled violence if necessary. The America he has conjured in his own image is okay with that.

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Blimey, the Irish have really got it in for him, haven’t they? Could it be because he is one of the few recent Presidents who can’t/doesn’t claim Irish ancestry?

Personally I think it all a bit over the top in some ways. Mainly because, as a proven liar, there is no guarantee that he will do all he promised, or be able to.

But we will see, and it might be a good thing in a way, his presidency, it might well be the catalyst for greater European co-operation and especially drive Britain closer to the EU. It already has a PM who I believe was a remainer, but just with not enough courage to push it. Time will tell. :thinking:

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David - I trust your comment about not having Irish ancestry is a joke. The Irish (generally) are proving themselves to arbiters of decency and humanity for the world right now and have shown the world that they can drive change for the better at home. Of all the disgusting, immoral things that Donald Trump and his immediate family have done, there is one thing that should be totemic and should have prevented 70 million people from voting for him - he and his son set up a charity for children with cancer and then stole the money. For ANYONE else, this would be a death knell for their careers and a guaranteed path to prison. I have lived in the US for almost 36 years, and I now feel nothing but hatred and contempt for the young people who voted for him because it would be a laugh or fun, for the women who voted for him, particularly if they are of child bearing age and could be forced to bring a rapists baby to term, and especially for the men who see in this weak, ugly, pathetic, criminal, diaper-wearing senile man, something to aspire to.

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I wonder what he will achieve / do actually. Someone has said elsewhere, don’t listen to what he says, look at what he does.

In the thread on “optics” a bunch of you were commenting on his long coat. What I saw was an exhausted old man. Heaven only knows what they are pumping into him to keep him going.

He has achieved what he wanted - he has become President again. He needs nothing more than that. Anything else will be difficult / tedious / require management / commitment (none of which he has) I see four years of shaking hands with some of the most vile people on this planet and (hopefully) not much else. Obviously all his court cases will miraculously disappear.

Other than that? These four years may be less dramatic than many of you seem to imagine.

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Stunned, devastating, tragic. I’ve worked with immigrant populations for 40 years. We’re about to have McCarthyism style human round ups, taking place and tons of money going to prioritized prison in jail system. There’s just not enough federal facility to hold people in deportation cells. In the end, the descent into fascism happened very quickly.

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Its not just him - the people he hires will be more influential in a variety of ways.
A vaccine denier leading the health department, a climate denier leading the EPA
Musk to start ‘saving’ expenditure - just lijke he did with twitter by firing thousands.

He might not finish his term - lok who is in line. Vance is even more of a hypocrite.
I lived in an America years ago that I do not recognize anymore.
I do understand people hurting from high prices and blaming immigration,…
Just wish they had a bit more understanding of the dynamics of regime change.
Looking at Brexit - it will be a generation of hurt before the UK is ready to join the club again - if it still exists

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I’m still in the US and it has been incredibly hard the last few days. I am not surprised by the outcome of the election - but I am disgusted.

The (approximately) half of us who voted for Harris/ against Trump are now trying to organize and resist. We are scared for our families. Some, like me, have been looking at options outside the US.

What is scarier is the number of people who voted for this and who seem to be applauding the horrors being promised. That is scarier than one lying sack of flesh - all the others who are there to inflict this upon anyone who isn’t like them or doesn’t get in line.

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No. Why do you think it should be ?

Encourage people to inject bleach into their veins ?

Mainly so that he can quash all the criminal charges against him. He knew that if he didn’t win, he could go to jail. Now it’s very unlikely even after his term.

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I saw a comment -
Typical. Trump avoids prison and we’re sentenced to four years.

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Scathing commentary on US voters

$$ unfortunately, but there is a 7 day free trial.

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That’s what I said.

Hello all! New here today! Trump himself will be a vengeful force of evil. But the real danger is JD Vance. He is 100% bought and owned by the ultra-conservative powers-that-be behind the scenes of all this. Trump predictably can be, and has been, talked into anything as long as the idea generator makes him think he came up with the idea.

Already his cadre of low-intellect, angry, mean, incel young men are making huge waves of racism and misogyny. I truly hope that young American women take on the South Korean 4B movement.

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The USA today, a long way from Donna Reed and the Clampetts.

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JD Vance will take over shortly, either by Trump resigning to play more golf or 25th Amendment. I don’t think Trump is that interested in this gig now that he has all his indictments dropped.

It may be true that a lot of the scary things Trump talked about doing won’t be done. But if Vance wants to be re-elected he will have to pursue them to please the voters.

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May be a little unfair to say “US as a whole” because there were a few million Americans who did not vote for Trump. As with Brits after Brexit, many will have the option to survive in US or vote with their feet.

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Yes, 68 million or something. But as with remain voters, they don’t really matter anymore, the lunatics are in charge and setting the tone and direction.

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Do you know what? I’ve just been chatting about it with OH and I am SO BORED with it all, already. Please, please let’s start to talk about something else! :roll_eyes:

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Thread shift!

Worth repeating :grin:

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