Tighter language tests

Many of you will have seen this already but just in case you haven’t:

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This is total click bait headlines. No one has to apply for citizenship to stay in the country, and the requirements for carte de séjours range from none (eg WARP cards) to a very, very basic A2.

And yes level is being raised for citizenship - but is that really so bad?

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thinking this through a bit more… :wink: (it’s been a long day)

I would not have been able to pass the ‘British’ test for citizenship in the U.K. 20 years ago and nor would most other Britons. A couple of hours with the ‘textbook’ and we would all have sailed through. Putting natives through a test designed for immigrants isn’t always a good measure of its level. Immigrants who need to take the French tests will need to study the syllabus for the exam and make sure they’re up to speed with that.

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I don’t think the tightening - if it happens- applies just to applicants for citizenship:

“Until now, those applying for a carte de séjour - a document allowing them to remain in France – were required to signed an “integration contract” and promise to learn French. Only those applying for French nationality or long-term residency have been required to take a language test.

The law will require those applying for papers to have at least the level of French of a lower secondary school pupil, aged 11-15 years. Those seeking papers to remain for longer or for nationality applications will be required to show greater proficiency.”

That is hardly a specific target is it. The difference between a low achieving 11 year old and a high achieving 15 year old would be huge. A meaningless sentence.

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My late wife was an excellent linguist, her French was always superior :face_with_hand_over_mouth: Sadly it didn’t rub off on me.

Anyway, the fact is across Europe is immigration is tightening. It wouldn’t surprise me if levers such as this are being tweaked.

Looks like the author of the FranceInfo article could do with a little French lesson too:

“Quand à ceux qui veulent obtenir nationalité française, la marche est encore plus haute, …”

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Yes, it’s pretty vague:

“Pour obtenir un titre de séjour de 2 à 4 ans il faudra valider un niveau collège, pour une carte de 10 ans, un niveau lycée et pour la nationalité française, un niveau universitaire.”

Yes, click bait. No it is not that bad, B2 for citizenship is about the correct level.

Anyone who is worried about obtaining A2 should not be; talking to a friend who is a professeur de français, informed me that you can get away with many many mistakes. A2 is the level to just survive.

If it is now at a level where a substantial fraction of native speakers would fail, yes.

May need dumbing down….

After immigrant from France fails French test, Quebec says it may tweak rules for tradespeople.

Tweaking for tradespeople! :joy::rofl::sweat_smile:

B1 is the level that will be required for a 10-year carte résidant.
That’s fairly demanding, I think.

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A2 is the level of end of 2nd year at secondary school with no prior experience, ie what you can reasonably expect them do after 2 years x 3 hours a week in a class of 30.
Back in the dark ages I survived at university in Germany straight after school and a Goethe Institute summer course where I validated C1.

No I have to disagree, the vast majority of native speakers will pass B2 and a good number C1. The stumbling block is grammer and spolling.

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:rofl::rofl::rofl: Love it.

As they are assessed on 5 skills only one of which is writing (and SPAG aren’t the only criteria) it would have to be a very very dim native speaker who didn’t get B2, though I wouldn’t at all be surprised were a native speaker to mess up comprehension of texts.

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Likewise I have C1 German and I am not a linguist, I am a chemist.
I thought it unfair that my grandmother would only talk to me in German whereas she would talk to my sister in English. I studied in Germany and worked there for a couple of years and also worked in CH.

So we are both arguing for a test which can be passed relatively easily by native speakers.

AIUI the level currently for nationality is B1, planned to rise to B2 - as a level B2 sounds fine - “where a user can communicate fluently and spontaneously in most situations, expressing themselves clearly and in detail, while actively participating in discussions on familiar topics with a degree of spontaneity and accuracy”.

Emphasis mine - it’s not supposed to be perfection and I would worry a bit about more than a couple of percent of native speakers failing to meet B2. I take your point about grammar and spelling but France is a country which still considers both extremely important in the basic curriculum. France has a 99% literacy rate - I suspect non native speakers make up the bulk of the 1% so really I’d expect a native speaker to nail B2 with ease, grammar included - if 20% are failing (as suggested by the Guardian) there is something wrong somewhere.

Oh, for a laugh I did one of those “check your level” things for English. It gave me C1 (I suspect the questions were not hard enough for C2 as I got every one correct).

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Really? I am dyslexic and spelling is my stumbling block. German is a transparent language but French where 80% of the letters are not pronounced (joke) and makes spelling a hurdle.