Hi we are thinking of opening an International Assurance Vie now as we are thinking we might sell a small rental house in the UK in the next year or two. I understand that the 8 years starts ticking when AV is opened and that subsequent amounts invested before the age of 70 are treated as if they were invested at the start in terms of the 8 year rule.
Does anyone have any recommendations of providers or indeed advice? I’ve read previous posts which came up in a search.
My only real life advice is regarding Blevins Franks. We invested in AV with them and mine returned 11% growth this year - with a high’ish risk ratio.
They do charge (according to others) high fees but the service is excellent and advice always available.
Have an irish one that complies with French requirements. We have gone for a cautious fund as security more important to us than returns. Will pm you.
Thank you. I’ve heard good things about BV. We need to identify our risk profile as we’ve been quite risk averse up to now.
I only have French based AVs. Very poor returns, and high charges, from Indo Suez, part of Credit Agricole, despite being 100% in equities, fully managed and in the highest risk profile. Good returns from online fintech Nalo (also v low charges, using only tracker (ETF) funds, fully managed).
I’m intrigued by the reference to International AVs. If anyone reading this thread has one, I wonder what the advantages are over French based AVs - if you’re a French resident? Is it better service, a wider range of investments, lower charges, ability to invest in other currencies and/or other factors? I assume they’d still need to be French tax effective to be worthwhile? For me, it’s important that every time the investment managers switch investment allocations (frequently!), it doesn’t create a taxable event here in France, within the AV wrapper.
I live here in France.
My AV is Luxembourg based, so within the rules for the french tax authority. I was told they have a better spread of possible investment and potentially better returns. My risk is 7 out of 10.
A switch of investment allocations (advised sometimes once / twice a year) does not create a taxable event for me.
Mine is Irish based, in Sterling. But meets French requirements for an AV and so same tax breaks and outside succession rules.
This is somewhat outside the original question but it raised a thought in my mind - are AVs worth bothering with if you are over 70?
Perhaps someone “in the know” should explain to the forum exactly what Assurance Vie in France actually is…
'cos it’s not like “Life Insurance” in UK, where Aunt Flo paid in 1 penny a week… until her death… in the hope it would mount up to pay for her funeral… 
yes please someone “in the know”
I’m not in the know but ChatGPT says this
In France, an assurance vie is a life insurance contract that serves as one of the country’s most popular investment and savings vehicles. Although technically a life insurance product, an assurance vie is used more as a tax-efficient investment account than traditional life insurance. It allows individuals to invest in a variety of financial assets and accumulate capital over time while offering several tax advantages, both during the investment period and at the time of withdrawal or inheritance.
Here’s a breakdown of its main features and benefits:
Assurance vie policies offer access to different types of investment funds, such as fonds en euros (euro funds) which offer capital guarantees and stable returns, and unit-linked funds (called unités de compte), which can include stocks, bonds, and mutual funds. The policyholder can allocate funds between these options based on their risk tolerance.
Income Tax Benefits: Withdrawals are taxed at favorable rates after a holding period of eight years. Income earned within the assurance vie can grow tax-free until withdrawals are made.
Wealth Tax Exemption: Assets held in an assurance vie are exempt from France’s Impôt sur la Fortune Immobilière (IFI), or real estate wealth tax.
Inheritance Benefits: Assurance vie policies are commonly used as estate planning tools because they allow policyholders to pass on assets outside of the typical inheritance tax framework. Beneficiaries receive these funds at a lower tax rate or even tax-free, depending on the policy and the amount.
Assurance vie policies enable individuals to designate beneficiaries directly, making it a popular tool for passing wealth to loved ones. Different tax-free thresholds apply depending on the age at which premiums were paid into the account and the relationship of the beneficiary to the policyholder.
Policyholders can make partial or full withdrawals from the account after a specified initial period. While there are tax benefits after holding the policy for eight years, it is still possible to access funds earlier if necessary, though it may incur higher taxes or penalties.
The account is opened with an insurance company or a bank that offers life insurance products. The policyholder makes an initial deposit and can choose to add funds over time. The returns depend on the type of investments selected and market performance.
Assurance vie contracts can be held for life and offer flexible management options, allowing the policyholder to adjust their investments over time according to their financial goals.
Example of Practical Use
Many people in France use assurance vie to build wealth for retirement or for future projects, as the account allows for tax-deferred growth. Additionally, it’s widely used for transferring assets to children or other beneficiaries with reduced taxes.
Key Considerations
While assurance vie offers numerous advantages, it’s important to understand the potential risks, particularly with unit-linked investments, which can be subject to market fluctuations.
that’s certainly the bit I know about… being able to give that money to whomever one wishes as it doesn’t form part of the Estate… hence no Inheritance laws/taxes etc…
must remember I need to complete the form to nominate the person who will get my little pile of gold sovereigns,…
So we have to live for 8 years. Hmmm…
Thank you. I need to study it.
An AV is simply a tax wrapper - the tax advantages are the same on any AV product. An ISA is the closest UK equivalent - in that it’s simply a tax wrapper.
What’s important are management charges and what you choose to put in them.
You can have the equivalent of a savings account - Euro funds. Main drawback is rate is universal and it’s awful (they have never kept up with inflation).
Or you invest - mainly in unit trusts and investment trusts. At which point you choose your investments or choose a managed portfolio.
Management charges vary widely - equally there are products designed for multi million investments and those aimed at more modest sums
Some AV are only available through a broker/financial advisor, others are available direct but good luck finding them given Google will throw up pages and pages) so in reality they tend to market via brokers- there’s also Boursarama and Fortunea who are more direct to consumer
Good reason to keep going. 
For anybody weighing up whether it’s worth living 8 or more years (!) to benefit from the tax advantages of holding an AV, here are the figures to (perhaps) help with that decision…
Regarding the differences, you can invest in a range of currencies and a higher amount is safeguarded in the event of a bank failure. The small print is often in English. My French is improving but it’s not good enough to negotiate the level of necessary technical detail. Thank you for your comments. Most interesting.
Here is what I find to be a very helpful flowchart explaining the (complicated!) French income tax and prélèvements sociaux treatment of gains from assurance vie.
It seems to me that the income tax and prélèvements sociaux advantages from holding your assurance vie for 8 or more years are obviously appreciated and useful, but are not exactly spectacular.
Point No 1. You NEVER escape prélèvements sociaux chargés of 17.2%, even if you take advantage of the annual income tax free amounts of withdrawals on gains/interest of 4600€(single) or 9600€ (married).
No2. For capital invested post September 2017, the income tax savings over and above the annual income tax free withdrawals described above are 5.3% (ie a tax rate of 7.5%) on gains attributable to the first 150,000 of capital invested in the AV…Above that, withdrawals are taxed at 12.8%. Capital withdrawn is never taxed, only gains/interest.
The above flow chart doesn’t obviously deal with the very considerable advantages of AVs and droits de succession…
If you qualify for medical insurance because of an S1 or equivalent, you only pay 7.5%, but this applies to all investments.
I personally wouldn’t have an AV unless you want to get round the succession rights. What you gain in tax breaks you lose in charges and lack of flexibility in investments.
A PEA is tax free after 5 years, although it is officially only for French shares, but there are two MSCI world ETFs which qualify.
