Hi
I am a retired UK Surveyor and recently had to have a French Diagnostic report to sell my property.
I was appalled by what I saw and read.
It was so unprofessional as to be ridiculous…
The first point of contention was that one of the inspectors used the sharp point of a mountaineers ice axe to jab into the woodwork damaging ancient beams and a screwdriver to dig into what are clearly new double glazed windows glazed to the latest Argon Gas standards. Supposedly looking for termites (None were found). They ignored the fact that heating and pool power is controlled by an off peak meter` The pool heating is energy free using solar power and the electricity bill is on average 50 Euros per month for two properties and several outbuildings and a pool.
I have lots of contention with the report and if it was carried out in the UK like this they would be struck off.
Water usage, gas, insulation etc etc are all good as thousands have been spent on making the property comfortable, environmentally friendly and economic to run.
Even to the extent of planting woodland to offset the carbon footprint.
I challenged these so called inspectors and they said that they only put in information as they see it and then feed it into a computer to establish the gradings.
My question is who to complain too?? I have searched numerous sites and cannot find a controlling body.
The `inspectors who came were not professionals. Probably did a training course, and ignored the detailed report that I prepared for them.
If anyone knows who regulates this inspection, I would be grateful for their details as I feel that this is a total rip off and just another excuse to charge exorbitant fees for a mornings work.
Welcome to SF @NMD and sorry to hear of your bad experience.
I don’t have any advice as to who you should complain to in this instance, but as you may know there are a number of RICS-registered surveyors working in France who would presumably prepare a proper report!
Unfortunately it seems any old Tom,Dick or Harry can become one of these diagnostic persons these days - I know personally of a former acquaintance of ours who got fed up with usual job and so became a diagnostics inspector for folks selling up - very basic training and he had no building or any other trade knowledge. He charged €150 a time whereas my diagnostic in 2021 took over four hours and I had to pay over €900 for a 40 page report for the purchasers of my old house. Seems some immobiliers were getting “friends” who were starting this type of business involved and insisting sellers use them. The one I used was from an established firm and engaged by the Notaire I sold through!
First thing is to check that they are fully certified.
But how did you decide to use them? If on recommendation of a notaire then go speak to them in first instance. The notaire has a responsibility to ensure that these documents are complete.
Problem is proving that they did a crap job requires you to get someon to critic their work, So perhaps contact their chambre de métiers?
La CDI-FNAIM est le syndicat qui défend les diagnostiqueurs immobiliers. Créée en juin 2007, la CDI FNAIM réunit près de 1600 professionnels spécialisés en diagnostics immobiliers. Leur adhésion à la Chambre des Diagnostiqueurs Immobiliers FNAIM garantit le respect des conditions d’exercice de l’activité de diagnostiqueur. La Chambre des Diagnostiqueurs Immobiliers FNAIM est affiliée à la Fédération Nationale de l’Immobilier (FNAIM), Union de syndicats professionnels, qui fédère près de 10 000 professionnels de l’immobilier, constituant ainsi la première organisation professionnelle du secteur en France. En tant que syndicat de confiance, la Chambre des diagnostiqueurs immobiliers FNAIM (CDI FNAIM) fédère des acteurs de toutes catégories : des professionnels indépendants, des TPE jusqu’à des entreprises de 400 opérateurs, et des réseaux de franchisés de diagnostic technique.
As l said l am a retired UK Surveyor of more than forty years standing and prior to the inspection l prepared a detailed report on all aspects of the diagnostic requirements.
I even itemised monthly and annual energy costs, utility usage and additional information relative to environmental matters.
They were not interested or even looked at it.
This is why l want to make a formal complaint to their controlling body.
I am sure that they are just doing the minimum and with a lack of experience or training to make lots of money.
The French Government is complicit in this by not ensuring that the diagnostic requirement is not implemented and administered correctly…
Our neighbour bought the house next to ours. The husband died so the wife is downsizing. One potential buyer bought along an expert to look at it and discovered the roof was riddled with Capricorn beetle requiring very expensive renovations. She challenged the provider of the diagnostic report who had said nothing about it. He pointed to a clause in the small print saying it was up to the buyer to check the contents of the report and would accept no liability.
Notaires became involved, money was spent but the conclusion was no chance of redress. Like you I suggested there must be some sort of médiateur (ombudsman) to complain to. I have to be very careful what I say but the legal profession in this area works in a different way to UK.
I am afraid it is just a case of the Gallic shrug, however if you do get anywhere I would be very interested to know.
Good luck but at the end of the day, they have a cahier des charges that sets out what they must do, which is pretty basic, and you will not get far with bringing any action against them for not doing things that you think they should have done but which are not in fact required. It would be like buying an entry level car znd then complaining that it does not have all the luxury options. The diagnostics are nthing more than a very rough guide done to tick a box and are generally accepted as such. If a person wants a more thorough survey it is for them to arrange.
I fully understand, but if they are allowed to just do as they please and with little redress from the government or a controlling body then it becomes a scam…
The fact that several environmental and ecological aspects of a property are not on the list of things to be addressed is purely the fault of the government.
This allows incompetent inspectors to ‘bend the rules’ and interpret the examination any way they chose.
The even said to me that they just report it “as they see it” and then fill out a spreadsheet and it spews out a grading.
In any other business it would be classes as fraud…
I symathise but I am not sure I totally agree. I see diagnostics as a côntrole technique such as you get on a vehicle. The testers take certain measurements and check certain items. But the results tell you very little about the vehicle, beyond that on a certain day, certain faults were not detected. Is that fraud?
I agree it is similar to a Control Technique in some ways, but with a car all cars today have to satisfy manufacturers standards and the CT is there to keep those standards.
No two houses are ever the same…
As it stands the ‘Survey’ is there to set broad guidelines, which allow to much leeway to individual inspectors.
The only joined up aspect is when they input the information onto the spreadsheet and if the information is faulty the result will be faulty…
But it is the same test for a 20 year old car that was built to different standards. Most modern cars should far exceed CT requirements in terms of emissions, braking efficiency etc.
The diagnostiques aren’t a survey so it’s oranges and lemons.
The EPC is a standard question set that is then entered into a set program that gives you a rating - it’s all but the same methodology in the UK. If it isn’t in the question set it’s irrelevant. The Energy Audits are the same - computer prints out a standard set of recommendations regardless of age - “appearance” etc - or suitability.
Yes but if it IS in the set programme and it is not answered correctly, or the ‘inspector either reports it incorrectly or does not put in the correct information then you will not get a true representation or correct assessment…
The results are only as good as the information provided.
In addition it is supposed to be a visual and technical inspection using evaluation equipment.
I doubt where digging the stainless steel point of a mountaineers ice axe or a screwdriver into ancient beams and new windows classes as a technical inspection.
TBH I think this reflects a very great difference between Anglo and French culture and law.
The result is that there are fewer consumer rights and protections in France. Even when there are rights, it can practically be much harder to enforce them than in the UK. Time and time again I think it’s like the 1970’s here.
Of course that can be good, or bad. But it seems that generally speaking if it’s not in a décret that you can refer to, then it’s hard work and you’ve lost before you start. Contracts also seem easy to write against the consumer. There seems no overriding concept of what it is “reasonable” to expect or have the right to, as there is in UK law, that can get contract terms (or the lack of them) thrown out.
I’m feeling my way on this, it’s just the pattern that seems to be developing as I am now in the French “system” of living and trying to get things done.
From my experience of living here for many years it seems that the onus of proof falls on the complainant which is as it should be (innocent until proven guilty.)
But then the perpetrator sits back and waits to see if you can prove it, and see if they can get away with it, Rather than the perpetrator having to explain their actions and justify that they carried out the service that the complainant ordered and paid for.
I remember in the UK some years ago when they introduced ‘home surveys’ or whatever they were called where you had to have one to sell - very quickly shelved as the people doing them had all had five minutes training and were generally morons … The diagnostics (as someone else said) are not a survey and this is France so you have to suck it up and move on. Good luck with the sale
When the old boy at Woburn Sands MOT centre used to get his hammer out and beat the chassis of my old Range Rover i was stressed but he was allowed to do it and in all fairness he was a very fair and experienced MOT tester.
